Our 20 mnth old girl started to freak out at night! Help!

[hanna-raori]

Hey everyone, especially Luvisen if you're watching

I need some help. Things have been fine, superfine! But there is a new pattern that seems to happen more and more. And we don't know how to deal with it. Last night for example was HORRIBLE!

(I put a really loud tick-tock clock in her room yesterday afternoon. That and some new furniture from IKEA was the only thing that was different. Still, she doesn't really care about room changes, it has happened before. It seems as this new pattern arrives totally without reason; after a real good day, after a very good "good-night-laugh"... it just happens- and I'm guessing it's our fault...)

She went to bed like normal at 19.30, she woke up at 02, but we didn't rhyme- we don't really anymore. Most of the times she falls back to sleep by herself after 1 minute. Same thing this time. Quiet after 1 minutes moaning. Another 5-10 min passes, she cries again! We wait (other times we've rhymed), but her cries gets stronger, something seems to bother her, so I rhyme. Good effect, she calms down, but after a minute she starts again, much stronger now! Sometimes she has kicked off her blanket and if I quickly go in to tuck her down she normally falls asleep after that. I go in, tuck her in, quickly also remove the clock, but same, she calms down for a while, I go back to bed, she is quiet and then, after maybe 3 minutes, it starts totally! She cries, cries, cries!

At this point I was thinking about your advices Luvisen. I thought straight away that it's my rhyming, going in, rhyming, actions in the middle of the night, constant crisis-delivering... I take a deep breath and decide to really CALM HER DOWN, to tell her everything is superfine, nothing is wrong, you're safe, and all that. But at this point she is crying so hard, so bad, my rhyming doesn't work at all! I start making house noises in the hallway and rhyming, no reaction. Finally, after about 20 minutes, my boyfriend comes to tell me that we really need to do something, she can't lie there crying like that anymore, she is totally freaked out- rhyming only is not going to work. And he is probably right, but we don't HAVE anything else!! Sunfeather REALLY doesn't work (see earlier thread).

I know that if I go in again at this point, the REAL nightmare starts: I use my substitute for sun feather: I sit down, quiet, next to her bed for a while- then leave, but she's always crying harder, of course this "made-up-method" doesn't help. She wants me outside! But me outside is not helping her either!!

Last night this happend: I went in, sat for about 20 min, she wouldn't let me go, she climbed up in my arms, I waited quietly- just sitting and holding her, but every time I moved or made a suggestion to lie down, she protested. No sign of change what so ever, so in a really quiet moment I picked her up and hoped she would fall asleep in our bed... BAD IDEA!!! Always the same!

She is quiet at first, and I think YES! But then, she starts... kicks, plays, talks, sings, climbs up and down, pull our hair, tries to make us laugh... anything but sleep, because sleep seems at this point to scare her! It takes always about 3 hours until she finally falls asleep, and it is not: "mm, it's so nice next to mum and dad" it's more: "what's going on, why am I here?" she cries, cries, cries- hysterically- tensioning and bending herself to an arrow, almost throwing up, and still- we're right next to her! So of course she's not looking for our comfort, she only wants security. @ hours passed of above behavior, finally my boyfriend decides to go and sleep in Elsa's room. At least she was not sad, but at this point- slightest change will destroy everything and indeed. She starts yelling like there is no tomorrow! We tried putting her back in her bed (we have a REALLY cranky neighbour under OUR bedroom, not under Elsas...), but that made it worse. We tried sleeping in the spare bed in her room, but the same there... the only things that keeps her quiet, calm and relaxed is walking around, but the second we lay down, she starts crying again.

And this last stage of the night: running around from bed to bed, creating chaos is EXACTLY what makes us destroy our lovely nights, but what the hell can we do?? Some nights IT JUST DOESN'T WORK! We have all the theoretical skills, but practically- what do we do wrong? Was it just the stupid clock? Or last week when my brother was here sleeping over in the living room- big change for her...?

I'm dying for an answer...

/Hanna

[Luvisen]

Hi Hanna!

First off let me say: I actually do know what ur talking about Been there, done that... And my boy is only 11 months... You can get all kind of crazy reactions from your child if you muck things up...Which is what is happening with u guys.

Now, lets look at what you say in your message:

I put a really loud tick-tock clock in her room

Clock is good but the tick-tocking I would do without. Silence sends a clear message when waking up in the middle of the night...just as darkness. Can't u turn off the tick-tocking so it just rings when it is time to wake up...? Other than that the clock should say nothing

but we didn't rhyme- we don't really anymore.

Exactly as it should be. She is a big girl, she knows that people sleep a night. She don't need to be reminded

but her cries gets stronger, something seems to bother her, so I rhyme.

If she cries at night and you immediately wake up and listen, you are expecting that she might NOT go back to sleep. Negative expectations... Not good [-X
It is also a question to the child: What's wrong darling? Not good, we are the parents we have the answers, we don't ask the child [-X
If you have real communication you would by now hear exactly what ur child is saying/asking with her cries. Not guessing it's "something"

I take a deep breath and decide to really CALM HER DOWN, to tell her everything is superfine, nothing is wrong, you're safe, and all that. But at this point she is crying so hard, so bad, my rhyming doesn't work at all! I start making house noises in the hallway and rhyming, no reaction. Finally, after about 20 minutes, my boyfriend comes to tell me that we really need to do something, she can't lie there crying like that anymore, she is totally freaked out

You are the one who needs to calm down, otherwise it wont work...No hint of frustration, irritation, panic, stress, worry, feeling of wanting to give up, desperation, wishing "it would work" or that the little one "please" [-o< could just stop crying. Think of this as a job. Your darling is freaked out- don't freak out with her, just stay calm.

Making house noises in the middle of the night is like starting a cirkus, AT THIS POINT, it is unnatural and with that noise it is hard to go back to slepp... However little itty bitty noise like the turning of pages in a book can work fine IF the child has a nightmare- see the book "For the Love of CHildren"

20 min crying....is not an eternity. If you had not done anything maybe the darling would have cried for 20 min and then fallen back to sleep, who knows ...And it can sometime take 20 min for a child to go back to sleep- nothing strange about that. She's a kid not a robot

Going in, picking up, taking to your bed is definitely a CIRKUS...And as you noticed does not help your child to sleep...So just don't do that.

She is quiet at first, and I think YES!

This tells me your are questioning that sleeping is a perfectly normal part of what people do at night... Are you with me?

Now it is high time for you to try and find a way to stay CALM and ASSERTIVE. Both of you. I have had a hard time getting my partner to stop asking questions when our son wakes up. And when he finally stop asking- our son DID go back to sleep on his own. But he was pissed and sad for not getting the benefit of the doubt.

but what the hell can we do?? Some nights IT JUST DOESN'T WORK!

Stop pulling your hair and stop feeling desperation.

We have all the theoretical skills, but practically- what do we do wrong? Was it just the stupid clock? Or last week when my brother was here sleeping over in the living room- big change for her...?

You have to many questions in your head. So it could have been the stupid clock or the brother in the sofa- so what? It is still night and people still sleep like pigs at night- right?

I'll write some more! I have to rush! //Luvisen

[Luvisen]

Hi again,

I saw I had some funny misspellings there .
Anyways. What can you guys do.

I would just stop the cirkus. I would let the darling find her blanket on her own. While thinking that I give her the opprtunity to find it and I know she CAN do it. I mean she can get a lot of things during daytime, right?
Stop the traffic and start to focus on the Attitude.

The tips I can give for that is:
1) Look at the short videos of Anna Wahlgren here on the webpage. Both of you. Listen to her tone of voice, look at her hands- the way they move. Can you see how she is just the very essence of matter of fact? That's what you need

2) Do you have the book "For the Love of Children"- loads of good stuff there! I noticed that when I implmented the whole package - so to speak- my son slept better. Outdoor activity and doing 2 social participation blocks... But I guess u guys are already doing that...

Is this helpful... Let me know how you get on and give me your thoughts.

Lots of hugs to all of you /Luvisen

[hanna-raori]

Hej Luvisen

sorry I haven't replied- it's been busy

Yes, I have For the love of children and we read your last reply and tried not to reply to her crying whatsoever (we know it just freaks her out anyway...) And indeed, no more circus! It worked very well. It feels like all we need is to fine-polish our attitudes. When Elsa feels that we are there and that she feels safe and that we KNOW what we're doing, she is a marvel!!

So I think we're back on track again. We have friends over and it is always hard to explain why we leave her crying, since they have kids too and don't have the same ideas as us, but we kept confident and Elsa felt it and so did we. Thanks again. It feels as we learn a little everytime there is a crisis and especially from good advices n the forum and I think we're getting to a point where we really know WHAT to do without asking...

I also think Attitude is the answer- we just need some fine-polishing

[Luvisen]

Hi again Hanna!



[quoteWhen Elsa feels that we are there and that she feels safe and that we KNOW what we're doing, she is a marvel!! [/quote]

That is soo cool! I noticed that with my little boy too

[/quote] So I think we're back on track again. We have friends over and it is always hard to explain why we leave her crying, since they have kids too and don't have the same ideas as us, but we kept confident and Elsa felt it and so did we. Thanks again.

This with having friends over was a really hard part for me. I felt the need to explain but now I don't do that anymore. They can think whatever they like and I don't feel the need to explain my actions. And my son falls asleep in 2 sec now that I feel supercomfortable with the whole set-up. For every time you do it "in front" of people the more experience you get and that way feel more and more comfortable.

It feels as we learn a little everytime there is a crisis

I couldn't have said it better myself 8) . You are definitely back on track

It is quite beautiful, this little process that starts with the cure, isn't it

/Luvisen

PS. If a new episode might happen involving a real sad darling, don't hesitate to ask for a tip- I have found one there too DS.

[hanna-raori]

Ahhh... Another bad night. They keep happening 1-2 times a week and thinking back, it's been like that for 2 months now! It's more than waking up at night... I can see a pattern during the day as well... Plus she might be in a period- a late 18 months thing?? Very bad nightmares??

I'm putting all cards on the table now and I'm curious about your responses.

First- her schedule:

7.30 wake up
7.30- 9.30 valling and alone playing in bed (she loves it!)
9.45 yoghurt, fried egg on bread
10-11.30 OUTSIDE (stroll, go to the park, explore- her conditions of course)
12 Lunch
12.30-14 Nap (while mum is working)
14-17 Work (with mum)
15.30 Fika (fruit, sandwich ...)
17-18 making dinner plus household work
18 Dinner
19 Bath
19.30 Pyjamas, valling and one hell of a laughter! Goodnight

Second, I think that one contributing factor can be that mum (me) has been working very hard (from home) so the daytime routine has been a little off... She is not "helping out" as much as before, the eating together is sometimes a sandwich by the kitchen counter, the outdoor mornings we've always done are sometimes running to the shop to get food, or driving around in the car, eating lunch at McDonalds (!!) and taking the nap in a sunny and warm car an hour later since it's not her normal bed or environment (she is VERY dependent on routines our little girl...)

Third, I've been reading FTLOC, A Good Night Sleep until my eyes have been bleading! I'm confident to say my attitude at night is normally very calm, assertive, comforting. I know this!! I've done this since she was six months! She is now 22 months...

My problem is that my attitude and tools has always worked before, but these last few months- everything has changed! The crying at night is different, she is really scared- she is not really asking questions, she is really freaked out and crying as if there is the scariest monster in her room. Rhyming from outside will not take the monster away, but going in, kissing her, giving her a few seconds quiet hugging until she relaxes is not helping either. The second I put her down in position, she grabs the bed-railing, holds on for her life, says: DON'T LEAVE, HE'S STILL HERE!!! I softly force her down with my hand on her back, put the blanket on and leaves the room. She always calms down after a few minutes, sometimes she even falls back to sleep, but go in to check after 10 minutes never works, she drops off to sleep for 5 min, and then she screams for her life again! Like if she didn't get calmed down just before! THIS is what I don't understand. I can't seem to calm her down, she is dropping off to sleep from frustration rather than comfort.

Last night we tried to do nothing when she woke up at 2.45. You said, Luvisen, that maybe she will calm down by herself after 20 min. She didn't... It took an hour of ups and downs, REALLY sad crying fits, pure crying and sometimes "I just saw a ghost who will eat me-screaming". We couldn't leave her like that! OF COURSE I went in once and continued to rhyme a little after, but basically we left her to "find her own blanket". It didn't stop and after an hour, she was tuning down, but then it started much worse than before. Sorry to confess, but it ended on the spare-bed in her room again... This time she couldn't sleep at all- she stayed up until 6 (!!!) talking, turning, laughing, but not crying. I lied next to her totally quiet. But it doesn't matter what we did in bed, because I know it's really not the way to do it.

I read this morning on page 644 in FTLOC and I found about nightmares, that you have to go in STRAIGHT AWAY! I'm going to try it next time, but as I see it- Elsa should know all this by now... It just doesn't make sense to me anymore- all this.

On Monday my big project I've been working with is over and we'll be going back to our normal life and routines again. I really hope things will be different, the new baby (who will sleep in the same room as Elsa) will be "Barnabokad" from the start and is arriving in less than 2 months. We HAVE to fix this now. [-o<

Sorry to take up all thius forum-space... but thanks for all replies.

[Luvisen]

Hi Hanna,

I hope soon things settle down so your girl gets her woderful sleep back. One thing that struck me seeing your schedule is that the mealtimes are a bit crowded. I do not know how much that comes into play with a good nights sleep when the child is much older than my child but it is just something that I saw when looking at the schedule. I usually feel better all around if my stomach gets proper rest inbetween meals...

Since you know that your girl is sad- then you have to reasure her- of course. The hard part is to avoid rescuing her. My child had nights when he was sooo sad. And I was calm and I had the right thoughts in my head but for some reason I still felt sad for him. I didn't know it at the time cuz I really thought I did everything by the book and I thought I had my emotions in check- so to speak and using the tools right. However the night I succeeded in 1) reasuring him 2) putting him back to bed (after he was super sad) I FELT the difference in my emotional approach to him and when helping him. I really FELT that all is well and that his bed IS THE most COZY spot for him. I really can't tell u in words HOW it FELT but it was a very good feeling, very warm. Everything I did worked- even if it wasn't by the book...

Just wanted to share that with you. Hope you get lots of good advice from more people here!

Lots of warmth /Luvisen

[hanna-raori]

Hi Luvisen, thanks for your thoughts. I hope she will too... I remember the feeling you are talking about- that is exactly what I'm looking for again and I think I might have come a step closer last night...

I calmed her down last night!! :thumbsup: I found a way to make her sleep without taking her up (which has been the only solution for us so far, but also the stupid reason to why we've destroyed her beautiful sleep) and I felt hopeful and noticed some progress, super! Just want to know what you guys think of this "substitute to sun feather", because tonight I'm re-doing the 3-day cure again since she didn't seem to be totally cured when we did it last time.

What we've been doing up until now is only rhyming, since we don't have a "calm base" to base the rhyming on, it doesn't work, it just teases her and it really feels like a 5mm. When we go in to calm her down, she is standing, we hug her and let her calm down, then we put her down, but she freaks out and is standing and crying before we leave the room. Not a very calming method... Of course the rhyming doesn't work, based on that!

Last night I started to massage her back and in seconds she started to kneel down a little and I could put her down. She still protested when she understood what I was doing, but I kept massaging and finally she was lying relaxed and quiet and I could continue only to hold her steadily with a static grip, like a sun feather and I haven't been able to do that for months!!

I felt REALLY happy, confident and Elsa seemed to remember. I stayed until she was asleep this time and of course when she woke up later and I wasn't there anymore she cried for me, but I went straight in and did the same procedure. It only took 2 min! I still stayed until she was asleep and 20 min after the same thing happened, but this time I didn't go in and she accepted the silence in the house and slept on. She woke up, not very happy, but we did a good morning and all was back to normal.

I realize she needs a cure again, because little by little it has spread to the naps and also the going to bed. She doesn't want to turn of the light which is REALLY something that has never happened. She was never hard to put to bed.

I'm wondering if this "calming-down" tool of mine will be sufficient and effective if I use it like we use "buffing" or "sun-feather". That is to use it until she is calm and then leave the room with the rhyme? I

If it works, I think we can re-cure her tonight and I'm confident she'll soon go back to where she was before this whole circus started. She misses it, I'm sure.

Do you think it will work? (I think it will... [-o< )

[Luvisen]

Yes, I think it might work. You are doing something you believe in and that works with your daughter and still trying to keep in line with the principals in the Good Night Sleep Cure. As long as you step back after curing her with confidence I think it can work.

I keep my fingers crossed. [-o<

Lots of love/Luvisen

[hanna-raori]

Just wanted to let everyone know how it went....

WE DID IT!!! WE CALMED HER DOWN!!! :-({|= :thumbsup:

I took care of all 3 nights this time and Max slept in the garage haha. But it was only hard work the first night, I had to go in, do my "new" thing (massage her back standing for a few seconds until she relaxed and I could put her down to continue holding a sun feather for as long as I judged it needed). It worked S-U-P-E-R-F-I-N-E and after a few wake-ups or crying she actually lay down on her belly herself when she saw me come in. I felt really confident and indeed she felt it! :thumbsup: Now we have our crisis-tool back!

First night: The first time she woke up I had planned to go in only once or twice to really calm her down to almost asleep before I left, but every time I left she freaked out, but I stuck to my decision to leave the room (thinking she would've feel my confidence and trust that I was there) but her cries kept building up so in the end I think she fell asleep from exhaust, but still with me reminding and confirming in to the last... In the morning I really felt we started to have a conversation- she woke up, crying- I went in straight away, calmed her down, left with rhyme- she cried for some minutes, continued to moan and in the end she was quiet when I confirmed and she was asleep. The last time she woke up, there was only a quick cry- which I pretended not to hear and the silence in the apartment seemed to have responded to her question and she fell back to sleep on her own.

Second night: I had decided only to rhyme, but she is still not sure she's totally safe (we've REALLY destroyed the magic of rhyming the last few months!!). I had some good rhyming going on, but it was only the second night and I figured it's better to really work the magic of the rhyme by making her feel safe FIRST! Definitely the rhyme always works AFTER I've been in to sun feather- even if I'm just there for 10 seconds, but when I START with the rhyme... she just HATES it- that seems to build her up, rather than calming her down. So the 2 times she woke up, she fell back to sleep after I had rhymed, reminded, been in quickly, rhymed again to finally confirm. All well for the second night I think...

Third night: NO MORE GOING IN! ONLY RHYMING! That was the idea, but she woke up only once at 5am- wolf hour, definitely not a good time to go in, so I rhymed the SECOND she woke up- a "pang-ramsa" as we say in Swedish- but again, this only made her cries build up and I knew by her long sleep until then (there was not even a peep turning of the light and going to bed) that she was almost cured, so I figured if I go in now, it will make her sleep and maybe next night it will not happen at all... ?? Indeed, I went in, put her down in position, quick sun feather, put her blanket on- she was cold, left after less than 10 seconds all together and she was quiet before I finished rhyming. No more questions after. I woke up a really happy and rested cutie for some alone playing in bed

Now my only concern is this: How do I start working the magic of the rhyme again? I don't want to get stuck in "the going in every time" swamp... I want to keep the sun feather as a crisis-tool from now on.

Thanks for reading

[hanna-raori]

No need to worry.... or have any concerns... She woke up once last night- and fell back to sleep on her own. She didn't even ask for me.

This is TRULY the best way to help children sleep- how can anyone with kids live without this??

Three tiny nights (of which, only one with hard work), now she sleeps just like normal again... in reality; quiet and happy to bed at 19.30 and woken up by us and the morning sun at 7.30 with a big smile on her face.

Life is good!!

Thanks Luvisen and of course Anna (who REALLY should be nominated for Nobel Literature AND peace price!!)

[TorsMamma]

Hi Hanna, congratulations! You surely did it!

The jingle (rhyme) doesn’t have the same effect on big children as it does on small. But I still use the jingle to my 3 year old as a way of setting a "period . " to whatever is going on. If you catch my drift?

So always say the jingle on your way out, and remember big children are a bit trickier as you found out, but it still works on them just the same. If you use the same attitude (conviction) as you have to the "back rubbing" to the jingle it will work just as well. I promise. Make sure the jingle is (i use hurray as an example) Hurray, Hurray, Hurray, HUUUURRRAAAYYY!!! Not hurray.....? hurray...? hurray....? Hurray.....?????
If you use the jingle to se IF it works it will not work, the jingle is given, as an answer with the tone you wish to deliver.

So go in, put the covers on, leave with the jingle of a minimum X4. Sometimes to get the jingle to work you can do what I do... Say lay down you can do it, and then deliver the jingle with the same tone.
I noticed that you can use a few words not many and NO discussions to get a point across. But I always end with the jingle saying . to any more questions.

Great work!

[Luvisen]

Absolutely FANTASTIC work! I am sooo happy for you and your child Hanna!

What a mom you are! =D> =D> \:D/

//Luvisen

[hanna-raori]

Thanks! Still sleeping like an angel...

Thanks for the info about the jingle, it's interesting to know. Actually, I'm just happy things are back to normal again- continuation, stability and security will help us make Elsa feel safe when the new baby arrives (not that we will have any sleeping problems with him haha- I'm hard-studying FTLOC as we speak...)

I hope I won't be back on this thread now- concerning Elsa...

[Luvisen]

:thumbsup: Hope the studying will give you those unique results about sleep and sibling-love! [-o<

I am always curious how everything develops, so keep us in the loop

And, yes- I hope u won't need this thread anymore and that Elsa feels supersafe from now on, Amen.

//Luvisen