Our 20 mnth old girl started to freak out at night! Help!

[hanna-raori]

Hi everyone,

Our little Elsa, 20 months old, happy sleeping baby (thanks to Anna's wonder book a year ago) caught a bad cold a week ago. She started waking up at night coughing and we thought it better to walk in to try and sooth her. Since then she started to totally freak out. Just like before her curing she wakes up yelling and nothing we do seems to help except picking her up and walking her around the appartment until she falls back to sleep (sometimes it takes up to 2 hours).
We guessed we should cure her again but we're a bit lost because we feel like we don't really have any tools left: she too strong for the sun feather, she hates buffing and rhyming has no effect anymore...

Please help us. What can we do?

Thanks for your help.

max, hanna and elsa

[Luvisen]

Hi Hanna and fam!

Think ouy've got to cure her again. Use a static grip instead of buffing/sunfeather until her body goes soft and she starts berathing deeply. Then you rhyme on your way out. Then do the samething the "first" night as soon as she wakes up. SHowing her that you are there and that yes, it is still night and time to sleep. When you see that she calms down - lays down in her bed, as soon as you go in then you stop going in and start backing off, so to speak. Rhyming in the door and then stepping back bit by bit.

You picked her up so you have now sent a different message than before and therefore this time around it might take sometime to get the message through. Remember the laughing when going to bed and after that- no talking. Just systematic work
Rhyming will work, you just have to persist.

Tip: Next time she gets sick. Don't go in all the time. CHecking on her while she is sleeping 1 or 2 times is enough. Just as grown-ups, she needs to sleep in peace when she is sick. That will help her body to recover faster. Also that way you don't erradicate your good work.

If you have any questions och worries or thoughts, don't hesitate to write in the forum.

Hope this has been helpful.

All the best and take care /Luvisen

[hanna-raori]

Thank you for your advice, Luvisen!

Yes you're right about us giving her contradictory messages. I guess we were also insecure because of the coughing and all... Won't happen again.

We'll try the cure again tonight. Using her lying back down on her own as soon as we enter as the clue to NOT walk back in next time she wakes up sounds like a very good trick!

Good day

max

[hanna-raori]

Thanks a lot, indeed this is what we figured we have to do...

I (mamma) should add some things to Max message though: putting to bed was never a problem- even though the nights have been rough, I keep sticking to the schedule during the day: lots of working together, lots of outdoor activities for HER and of course we ALWAYS laugh before bedtime, just as we've always done. She never compaints going to bed. Which is why we don't really understand why all of this happened. She's been sick before, without sleeping problems. We always wait with the rhyming a little bit and if she's really freaked out we take actions. Never by talking, only giving a firm sothing message: it's night, time to sleep, calm down... In reality, sunfeather quickly (Quick since it doesn't work on her anymore, it just makes her hysteric to be held down, we've tried different "levels of strengths", but always w the same result) and then rhyme on the way out as usual. I find that rhyming works best, but never in the wolf hous anymore.

So basically, she falls asleep fine, wakes up freaked out and scared, we rhyme, no reaction maybe only worse, we go in, she refuses the sunfeather, we've tried a few times for 30-40 min without result only increased crying, hense the picking up...

So how do we calm her down without a working sunfeather? Can this work for the first cure night: go in at smallest pip, a quick putting down since she's standing up, plus leave with a rhyme and await reactions and after that JUST respond with rhyming until she's asleep again. Confim softly. Next wake up- same. ????

Thanks for another quick reply, we need to deal w this now, tonight.

/Hanna

So how do we calm her down without a working sunfeather? Can this work for the first cure night: go in at smallest pip, a quick putting down since she's standing up, plus leave with a rhyme and await reactions and after that JUST respond with rhyming until she's asleep again. Confim softly. Next wake up- same. ????

I'm asking because just going in without managing to CALM her down, takes away the entire philosophy with AW... But USING the sunfeather or any other firm grip will just make it worse. And THIS is our problem, it was never like this before....

[Luvisen]

Let me ask you: Just so I understand u correctly: Nowadays you can put her to bed without problems. The problem is that she wakes up during the night?

OR: You cannot put her to bed without problems AND she also wakes up at night?

Which is it?

//Luvisen

[Luvisen]

OK, I read your message again. Now I understand. Well. I have a son that also becomes "hysterical" if buffed, sunfeathered or otherwise "held down". AND he can occassionally wake up in panic.

So I have done the following.

Put to bed as usual. As this works. Nothing strange there.

Now, be prepared for when she "usually" seems to wake up, or if its very unpredictable then wait for her cry.

At the slightest pip. Hurry in quickly. Put her back down. Let her find a position ( we are talking seconds here). Let's say she wants to sleep on her side, for example. Then you hold your hands around the position that SHE has choosen. So that she won't fidget. No holding down! (No frustration! Then you will experience this: ](*,) That is wrong.

Just static hold , that allows some movement but not a lot, just enough to let her remain in the same position. To send message: All activity stops now. Lets say that she during this cries and screams. (my son does this sometime.) Then you just stay there. I usually have the following thought in my mind: I stay until I have accomplished. I am CALM and ASSERTIVE. -that helps me.
Now, when her body becomes calm you gradually loosen the hold. Let then one hand remain on her back with just a itty bitty tiny pressure. Until she seems more or less asleep. Then you rhyme softly on your way out.

When she wakes up again. At the slightest pip - rhyme. My son usually gets pretty upset so I rhyme until he follows me down in pitch- this can take a while. 20-40 min around. And then when he finally mutters or sighs I give him the confirmation. And wait for him to sleep.

If she wakes up a third, fourth time during the night I would wait a few seconds and see if she goes back to sleep herself.

This becomes something like an express-cure as your child already has the experience of sleeping fine through the night.

ANOTHER OPTION:

If she wakes up screaming. Superquickly go in, put her down. If she goes quiet immediately after this, then you rhyme on your way out. And she should remain quiet and go to sleep.

If she instead would start screaming when you rhyme on your way out, I would superquickly return to her and use the procedure as I have descriped above.

-------------------------------------------------

The freaking out- that you describe is that, yes, she is terrified. You have told her by holding her that indeed she should be terrified when waking up in the night. Now you told her that she should be terrified and still go to sleep. So you need to do ALOT of convincing. It's hard. It almost break your heart. I know- I've been there. But persistance does get the message through eventually.

Please let me know how your night went and we can take it from there, unless ofcourse you have some more questions now.

I hope this does the trick [-o< /Luvisen

[hanna-raori]

Fantastiskt Luvisen, Max och jag säger jättetack!!! (Du är svensk eller hur?)

So, Max vill take care of the night- pregnant and very tired mum (who is not even ALLOWED to do any holding of Elsa anymore because of pregnancy) will go and stay with her grandparents and hopefully this will do the trick.

I have one more question that I need answered before tonight... Do you think it's possible that darkness can be a little bit of the problem? Her room is pitch black when we put her down, sometimes I don't even see the bed, but in the morning some morning light always sneaks in and makes everything visible in her room... If this is the case I will put up some extra curtains before tonight.

Thanks so much for your help!

[Luvisen]

Svensk -typ
Varsågod!

Sounds like a superplan!
About the morning: light in the morning does tend to wake these little persons up... Yes, I would go for extra curtains! Good thinking there mom! :thumbsup:

Best of luck!

Kram/Luvisen

[hanna-raori]

Hello Luvisen,

I thought you might like to hear how we fared with your advices. Well, last night went very fine eventhough a bit different than expected:

Elsa first woke up crying at 21.30. I tried your B plan (rhyming) but didn't get any positive reaction so i walked in and set myself to static holding her in a confy position. She did NOT want that No, she really freaked out: crying, yelling, twitching, she almost climbed up the railing and fell on the floor once. There was no way i could hold her down. Too strong and determined she is! Finally i stopped trying and just sat next to her bed, in silence. It stopped the freaking out but not the crying. I could not think of anything else to do but walk away with a rhyme... Of course it started her up again but she quickly showed signs of winding down slightly. She did wind up again after a while though so i tried going in again but without any more success than the first time. Actually it all happened exactly the same with me finally leaving her with a rhyme still crying but not freaked out.

After that, i decided to stick with the rhyming at the door. And it worked! Quite quickly i noticed she was winding down and after 30mn she was silent. I waiting another 10mn then i walked in to tuck her in. She was sound asleep.

45mn later she woke up crying again but a standard 4 times rhyming took care of it.

She slept until 8.00.

I'm very happy with myself i have to admit but what do you think? Did i do okay? Was it okay to leave her eventhough she was not quiet? I mean it did work out fine, didn't it? Let me know what you think i should do tonight please.

Thank you so much for your kind advice.
max

[Luvisen]

Hi Max!

Did you do okay? You did superduper excellent =D> =D>

Anna Wahlgren writes in her book that toddlers are to be tucked in and rhymed. No more no less. And the rhyming requires a lot strength from the stomach and up.

But since your child seemed so sad I thought it might be worth a try to see if she needed reasurance that you guys are there. BUT that was apparently not the case ! She was just mad and then it is best to leave them to it, just as you very wisely did, and then stick to the rhyme.

You should be very proud of yourself and continue with ryhming tonight. I suspect you will not need much at all of the rhyme

Always interested to know who you get on!

//Luvisen
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PS.
If you hit a new bump in the road so to speak-, she gets sick or whatever- feel reassured in the knowledge that you can always come back here for some discussion.

[hanna-raori]

Thank you so much Luvisen, indeed, even I noticed the difference on the nap today, I think Max did a really great job last night, I don't think my nerves could have taken it...

I have a question about next week that I would like your knowledgeable opinion about...

I'm leaving for Sweden for a week and my parents apartment is really small, there is only ONE extra room for me and Elsa. There is a travel bed there, but I sleep in the same room and there is no way to "screen off" between our beds, so when she wakes up in the middle of the night and see me, she never wants to sleep in her own bed, even though she often falls asleep there quite easily. In reality, she often ends up in my bed if she wakes up. I've tried to sneak out to rhyme outside the door, but she ALWAYS see me, even though the room is pitch black, the door light gives me away.. I've tried rhyming from the bed, but without success- she feels I'm in the room. Any ideas? Should I just put her from the start to sleep in the big bed and in that way have her at least at the same place all night? The only other option I can think of is me sleeping very bad in the living room sofa just outside the room, so that at least she can have her own room. What do you think?

PS. It's good that the English forum is building up, don't you think? All my friends here in Belgium needs the forum in English (or French) so it's good that we start stocking up on questions and replies here

[Luvisen]

Wonderful news :-({|=
Now to how to ALWAYS keep this nice routine: Swedish trip or not

Well, lets put our smart heads together :-k .
If there is no way at all to screen off the best I can think of is to treat the extra bed a bit like the baby carriage... put a blanket over the whole thing and just rhyme in the night where you lie in your bed. But I guess it must be really fastened so that it cannot fall onto her or that she can take it off...I will call on a wiser woman and see if she got any tricks up her sleeve


I agree about the english forum...it reallty needs a pick- me up

Hug/Luvisen

[TorsMamma]

Hi,

About travelling... It is difficult, what most people do is they bring trash bags and use scotch tape to cover the windows so it gets pitch black. And then some bring a black sheet and some clothes pegs and a rope/string to tie high up. And by this gets a shield in the room.

My son is 3,5 years old and I use the same black sheet with clothes pegs and put around the bed so he can’t see out, when he is asleep I take the sheet even over the top. Has worked for us.
The most important thing to remember is to keep the schedule times no matter what, and if worse gets worse you do the cure again.

What to remember is that you need to pack you “attitude” and with this you can jingle the child in bed if necessary.

Good luck on your trip! And yes, I too am very happy that the English speaking forum is taking off, hoping we can help lots and lots of more people.

[hanna-raori]

Just wanted to say thanks to both of you. Elsa slept 12 hours last night and the night before, we're back baby! Feels wonderful!

I will think about what might work for us when travelling, but my parents belongs to the "hippie-culture" (no routines, listen to your child and pick up to hold at smallest pip...) and tells me proud how they didn't sleep for 10 years with kids... With these two (otherwise fantastic) people hanging outside her bedroom in their very small apartment, it is sometimes hard to do miracles... but I will do my best.

Thank you both for helping us out- I work from home and have a very big project coming up. If it wouldn't have been for Anna and you two I wouldn't have been able to make it in time- now I see light at the end of the tunnel

Have a great week-end.

/Hanna

[Luvisen]

Wow!!! =D> =D> That is fantastic!!

About hippieparents- Love, peace but no understanding of small children...at least . Same problem overhere. A bet we are far from alone when it comes to doing this FTLC-job when we have our parents in the next room.
But think of this: You are taking a giant leap in really making a huge difference for your child and not just that, she will love you for the respect to shown her at such a tiny age. I suspect it is truly priceless!

And when you ryhme- think of it as rhyming your parents , at least that is a fun-perspective
Following dialogue comes to mind.
Your girl wakes up and screams: " Mommy, I heard some wolfs outside the room! Are they coming to get me?" Message to tiny " No my darling, its your hippiegrannies. Go to bed mom and pops or at least quit hanging about here!"

If you get annoyed you can always drop me a line about it, I don't mind lending an ear. I know it can be a bitch...(sorry about the language)

Best of luck!

//Luvisen
PS. Glad your getting on with your workload, and a bit jealous - I which I got to work from home !