Tantrum Age

[Sonja Gürtler]

Hi,

in the German forum I heard that Anna spoke about the difference between the Pre-Tantrum-Age and the Tantrum-Age in the Swedisch forum. (I hope the dictionary gives me the correct translation for "tantrum-age" ) In her books she does not really make a detailed distinction.

Since my little girl is now 2 years and 3 months it´s really hard for me to tell the difference and therefore to react appropriatly. She is now in a difficult time as she refuses to take her day nap for almost 1 month now. Now all age related frustration is more distinctive I think.

Would somebody kindly explain the difference between the Pre-Tantrum-Age and the actual Tantrum-Age to me? How can I tell whether I need to detract her or if a real "No" is appropriate.
In the German forum Rosine already explained well and told many examples of her little ones, but for me it´s really hard to tell the difference for my little girl.

Many thanks for you explanations!
kind regards,
Sonja

[TorsMamma]

Hi Sonja and welcome you too!

The big difference is that the “pre tantrum- age” enters at around 1,5 years old. And the “BIG” “tantrum- age” enters around 2,5 years old. And lasts for about 1 year with a short pause in the middle.

The “pre” stage is easily distracted and lasts for a few months, where as the “BIG” stage can’t be distracted and will not show any satisfying ease by being distracted. So at this time NO is the answer to a question. Not say no to let say touching things. Now you still show WHAT to do in action. Lets say she pushes someone, you still correct this with WHAT to do instead the first time. With an UPS, we treat our sister or friends carefully and caress them. But if this doesn’t help you send them to their room (ostracism in the book). Read the chapters about the 3 year old in the “for the love of children” and also the chapter in Part five “Upbringing” it is now when you introduce boundaries and limitations.

But then you also have what the Americans call “terrible two” where they can do everything on their own, say NO back and often loudly. This is still the confident 2 year old, not easy to handle but they grow with social participation and lots of “do it myself” chores.

Do you have any examples you would like to bring up and talk about?

[Sonja Gürtler]

Hi TorsMamma,

thanks for your reponse and your explanations!
I have read the chapters you have mentioned and the chapter about the Tatrum-Age over again. But your descption of the "terrible two" as below is the most closest I come currently to descripe my little girl at the moment. Everything is NO (not only as response to questions, which I´ve never avoided more in my life ) but she wants to make everything by herself too. She easily becomes desperate if we forestall something what she intended to do (switch off the light, open the door etc)

So in this pre-stage, how do I react appropriatly if distracting is not sufficient? Put her in her room to give her the lesson that screaming in the living area is not tolerated? Or is ostracism only a reaction I come up with in the real tantrum-age?

A further question relates to her bad nap habits. For almost a month now she does not sleep for her day nap. She talks, sings and calls for us - never anxious nor despaired.
We tried already a lot to help her to settle again: remind her every 10-15 min that it´s sleeping time, introduce the alarm-clock at the end of her nap, change from the big bed back to her crib (at daytime she used to sleep in the parents bed, because I needed her room for working while she took her nap). We changed her scedule in order to gurantee that it´s not too late in the day for her nap. (her nightrest is 8:30 to 8:00, her nap time starts at 13:15 for 1,5 hrs.)

So I think we currently have a real bad "terrible two" as she is not only provocative in questioning everything but also tired throughout the day!

Do you have any ideas, comments? I really appreciate your thoughts on all this!

many thanks and
kind regards,
Sonja

[TorsMamma]

Hi Sonja,

Thanks for your feedback. Anna writes in the book about the 1,5 year old that you can put in the bed with a nice bribe while you as a parent catch your breath. So it is not ostracism it is about but for you to catch your breath a moment if she is screaming terribly.
A two year old thinks they can do everything and most things they can actually do if you as a parent only have patience enough to let her try. Like putting clothes on, outwear and shoes. An also you need lots and lot of social participation at this age. This is what will get you through the day. So lots of chores to do, laundry, cooking, setting table, dishes and so on, feeding pets, clean the bathroom or bathtub. Let her do it for a long time and say (you need to do a little more here, and a little more there) it is at this age they start with the ACTIVE social participation, where as it most likely have been passive social participation. She can cut the food and vegetables, cook and fry. Just be careful. Give her a chore!

So please try a bit more patience to let her try alone, come back and help minimally. (the biggest regret I have from my son being 2 is that I didn’t let him learn how to dress himself) Try working proactively and see when these situations start. Perhaps you can break it up with an OH! I see you are very angry at the moment, I will get back to you in a minute. Or say, before she throws a fit, Let start cooking, do you want the vegetables or the sausage.

Preparation, like. In 5 min we are going home. In 4 min we are going home. In 3 min, we are going home. In 2 min we are going home. In 1 min, we are going home. Or role play before you get somewhere. Like when grandma comes what do we do? What would you like to do? I think I will hug her, what do you want? Do you want to show her anything?

Also I can’t find the word for it in the book but translated from Swedish it is called “pact” with the child. Let say that the shoes are tricky. You can pact with her and say, silly shoes, just won’t come on like they should. What do we do?! Lets try mammas shoes Humor and fun, put the shoes on the head, be silly. Then try again with the difficult thing to do. We get along with humor in this family.

Regarding the nap, we have CD story for a long time that my son got to listen to and fell asleep to. Do you still need to work in her room while she naps? Can you have the nap room PITCH black? I had to have the nap in a pitch dark room and with the CD story on the last years. That worked for us. Sometimes the nap was only 45 min and sometimes the whole 1,5 hours.

Do you have some more to work with?

[Sonja Gürtler]

Hi TorsMamma,

thanks for your rich feedback! It could not be more true as what you say about the 2 year old.

A two year old thinks they can do everything and most things they can actually do if you as a parent only have patience enough to let her try

Sometimes I think it´s not so much about pre-tantrum-age but keeping the patience throughout the day

I am glad that most tools you have mentioned, we are already using in every day life. Social participation whenever possible. We have also implemented the "pact" after somebody gave us this hint in the German forum. It works very well.

Regardings the nap: what do you suggest: should we walk in to remind her, to fan her, shall we jingle??? Or just leave her talking and singing as long as she is satisfied?
So far we have the 4th day nap in the crip and the 2nd day with pitch-black windows - so far there is no difference. I will try the CD thing whenever I get the chance to download or buy them. I thought for the 2years it´s too early to introduce the CD for the day nap as they should sleep. But I hope that listen to the CD makes her stop talking and falling asleep more easily.

thanks again and
kind regards,
Sonja

[TorsMamma]

Great job going on! =D>

That was my idea. That the CD will make her focus on something different.

Keep putting the nap in the pitch dark room and think prerequisite. We give our children the opportunity to sleep, we can’t sleep for them. So leave her alone if she is not sad, then you use the tools given to you such as the jingle and sun feather. At least she gets the 1,5 hours of rest, that she will need.

While waiting for the CD story, play the radio or TV LOUD so that she can hear that while she talks, so she has to focus on other things while she goes to sleep.

Good luck with the terrible twos and welcome with the big 3 year old tantrum soon. Please keep us updated.

[Sonja Gürtler]

Hi TorsMamma,

thanks for all your support! Time to give you a short update and to ask new questions

About 10 days ago, when we were on day-visit at my parents house, I tried again the trick to put her with the face in the sun (while lying in her stroller) so that she was forced to close her eyes. Within 5 minutes she was asleep. We worked with this trick a long period last summer until the foggy season started in November. As we had a sunny week here in Austria, she came back to take her nap in her stroller, forced to close her eyes. Yesterday and today we had to have her sleep in her crick, pitch-black and CD on .... and again she is sleeping well =D>
It seems that she got back to her rhythm to take a nap and it´s makes a big difference for her freak-outs as they are way less and not as intense as before.

BUT it seems that it should not get too relaxing for us these days as we are coming up with a new "problem".
Since about a week she is without napkin at daytime. This works really well as she was already used to be without a napkin at home. But she does not want to do her poo in the toilet. It seems that she does not want to let go of it. Today and 2 days ago she was crying for 2 hours that she has to poo but she does not want to sit down and screams "No, no, no, I don´t want...." She was so desperate but just didn´t want to let go of it as after 2 hours she just couldn´t hold back anymore and finally sat down.

I assume that this is typical for this age as she is currently opposing everything (meals, get dressed, get to bed, etc) so it seems that opposing to have poo at the toilet is just topping everything.
So do you have any ideas and trick how to handle this?
I want to give her some relief in opposing making poo.

Many thanks in advance for your ideas!
kind regards,
Sonja

[TorsMamma]

Hi Sonja,

I’m so glad to hear about the great progress you’ve made! =D>

With regards to the diaper free period, I’m not the best. I cheated a bit with my son. But why can’t you just put on a diaper again when she needs to Pooh? Take it off right after.

Or put the potty in front of TV and let her sit there and watch a children’s show? If it happens it happens, if not no big deal. Don’t force it is my best advice. But sorry I have no tricks. It is a maturity thing and one day this will not be a problem.

Anna writes in the FTLOC book about children letting go of their diaper, please reread those bits. But more than that I’m afraid I have no more. I will check in the Swedish forum if they have anything, but I have read the most threads there as well.

Good luck!

[Sonja Gürtler]

Hi,

we have put on the diaper when she needed to pooh for a long time now, she was without a diaper at home for months already. But she asked to sit on the toilet seat for pooh one day, so I felt that´s the right moment to get rid of the diaper completly .
As Anna writes, I don´t want to confuse her with putting the diaper on again. I know she does not need it and therefore don´t want to confuse her that she needs it for making pooh.

Thanks though for for ideas. I will also check in the German forum.

kind regards,
Sonja