About to start GNS cure for 4 month old

A parents' forum based on GNS (A Good Night's Sleep)
Gen.Pe
Inlägg: 49
Blev medlem: tis 20 mar 2018, 00:07
Ort: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Re: About to start GNS cure for 4 month old

Inlägg av Gen.Pe »

Hi Tin! Thanks for the reply. I am not sure the methodology behind the responses I am getting- is the vagueness of them on purpose so we learn it for ourselves not just get easy answers from y’all? :?: :wink: I believe I have understood the tools, I have read and reread them. But I would like for someone to literally say YES that’s exactly how it’s done so I know for certain I am curing him correctly, even tho my results so far are amazing. [-o<

I quote from the cheat sheet: “The next time the baby wakes up, you have to be there right away. Now he is asking questions, and he has no idea what is going on. He needs to be answered instantly. He mustn't be allowed to work himself up. (So don't count on getting much sleep yourself the first two nights.) Go in and give the message quickly and effectively. Wait until he is calm, relaxed and quiet. Leave as you say the four-verse jingle. Wait. Remind if necessary *here, is the reminder just the jingle again?*, but allow time for a reaction first. He must be allowed to react before he can take the reminder in and respond to it. Finish off with the confirmation jingle.“

I guess where I feel confused is...(the message is very clear on how to when to for how long and when not to!) Is the “reminder” TRULY a reminder of the message itself? Meaning you go in and repeat the buffing and fanning OR is the “reminder” the JINGLE itself? Then the confirmation is reiterating the jingle to have the last word- yes?

The x6 version of the jingle to be used tomorrow night (my 3rd night of the cure) is the combo- yes? :lol:
Son, born Nov 19/2017
Another son, born May 16/2020
TorsMamma
Forumets ordförande
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Blev medlem: fre 17 nov 2006, 09:25
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Re: About to start GNS cure for 4 month old

Inlägg av TorsMamma »

Hello,

So I didn't ask you to confirm the jingle for me. :wink: I asked you if YOU use the confirmation jingle?

So second night you don't enter the room at all unless there is a crisis, then you enter and buff him calm and exit with the jingle.
2. The reminder How does the crying sound? Is it cranking up or winding down? Don't be in too much of a hurry. If Gustaf sounds like he is going to go ballistic, you will have to go back in and give him the message again, in accordance with the instructions above, but in a much abbreviated form. We are maybe talking about a minute. The goal is to get his body to go slack and to silence his crying, but if he does not fall completely silent, he should at least sound much calmer. Exit again, saying the jingle. The reminder's power lies in the jingle not the patting. Wait outside the door. Say the next jingle after a couple of minutes. Adjust your tone of voice. You sound very decisive. Listen. Is the baby “answering” you? Does he sound as though he is listening? Good. Keep waiting. The four-verse jingle (in exceptional cases the six-verse version) should take less than 30 seconds.

The gap between the rounds of jingles whether you use the four-verse or six-verse variety, should all the while be lengthening considerably, but you can still “jingle” every other minute if necessary. If he is really working himself up into a frenzy and it gets to the point where you know that the jingle is having no effect at all, give the bottom patting message again, but keep it really short. We're talking maybe 15-20 seconds tops. For example three rounds of bottom patting (four pats to a round) with light pressure applied to the back with every fourth pat. Then head immediately for the door with a four-verse jingle in a this-is-final tone of voice. Wait for a reaction, listen, and give another reminder. Remind as often as is necessary. Stay alert and listen for when he is truly quiet at last. Then it is time for the crucially important final stage.

3. The confirmation. Repeat the jingle, but softly and reassuringly now . The goal here is to gently confirm that this is the end of the “discussion” - quite literally the last word. Your soft tone of voice says. “You've got it! Very good! That's just what you're supposed to do when you want a good night's sleep.” At the first confirmation jingle, the recently silent baby will probably protest again, but this is no big deal. It's temporary and will disappear, most probably on the first night.
I know that when you do the cure, you are so sleep deprived that you usually read things with different eyes then you do when you are well rested. This is why we keep urging you to read, re-read and then read again. Because we read things with different eyes depending on how we feel, where we are in the cure, the results and so on.

So this second night to be very clear (you can also read the last part in the book where Anna writes about how the cure can work when she does it) You enter the room after the top off and the laughter. The room is already pitch dark, you fly in like an airplane, you exit the room with the jingle. Vers 1 (x1) on you way out, vers 2 (x1) as you close the door, vers 3 (x1) with the door closed and the last vers 4 (x1) outside the door with a happy steady voice. (=x4 all together)
If he reacts you let him react, you LISTEN, what is the question? Depending on how the sound is, what the question is, you use the tone of your voice to answer with the jingle X4 outside the room with the door closed. He should then either be quiet and listen, or he might just get very upset and angry with you. LISTEN! What is the question? So the key with the jingle and the listening is the magic with the cure. You don't enter, you are the guard outside with the gun protecting him, and your job is to convince him of just that! (the safari)
You are safe and sound you can now sleep.

When he is quiet, you give the confirmation jingle X4. THis is the Pavlos dog principle. Also outside of the room with the door closed! :D

If he reacts to this, you start over with the jingle "the reminder" and so on. The confirmation jingle X4 always has the last word.

If night 2 goes without a big hassle then you can combine the regular jingle with the confirmation jingle. That means you say the jingle X3 and the confirmation X1 = X4.
X6 is for the BIG questions that really needs convincing. That is why you practice this.

So as you go through the nights, keep reading, you WILL see that you the first time read something in a certain way, and by the third night you read the same but with different eyes. :wink:

I remember when I started the FTLOC with my son and after 2 months came to this forum. After a few months here I wrote the post "like the devil reads the bible" :wink: I only saw some parts and didn't see the whole picture. Sometimes we get so narrow minded in the "tools" we forget the "attitude of total confidence" which is more important. Or we only look at the night and don't understand that the whole 24 hours is what matters. Like food, most parents think it is what they eat right before bed that will determine the night. But it is the amount of food over the whole day that determines the night and sometimes not the same night but the night after.

This is why we look at the schedule so closely, why we talk about being outside 1 hour am and 1 hour pm as the grow older.

The biggest problem for us here is that we all do this on our own spare time, noone is paid and we all had to make our own mistakes and got nothing served. That is why we try to answer as much and as often as we can. We are all just mothers doing our best to live by Anna W child filosofy. I just happened to be trained by her as well and cure a lot of babies. So we all do this as a "pay it forward" thanks to Anna for saving our lives, for free. :wink: :heart:
Tor 2006
:heart: BB barn från början. Sov sin första 12h natt 5 dagar före 4 mån, Diplomerad SS vid 6 mån
:heart:

:heart: FTLOC child from the beginning. Slept his first 12 hour night 5 days before 4 months. :heart:
Gen.Pe
Inlägg: 49
Blev medlem: tis 20 mar 2018, 00:07
Ort: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Re: About to start GNS cure for 4 month old

Inlägg av Gen.Pe »

Excellent! Then yes I am indeed doing it all “by the book”. I read last night too in the wee hours when I couldn’t sleep, I do see what you mean. I’ve picked up on things that I didn’t notice before. I was very much so focused on the tools to ensure I would keep the wolf at bay, doing them right. Now that I have the order correctly and know exactly what to do...I can really see how the attitude of supreme confidence works it’s magic.

THANK YOU all for your tireless effort here on the forum. I bet plenty of questions get repeated which can be frustrating :wink:

Last night, our 2nd night into the cure went off without a hitch! Put him to bed at 7 and within 30 minutes (a round of the message, then sets of both jingles thereafter) he was asleep and slept all the way through until 315am, the hour of the wolf, and back to bed with one combo jingle as I like to call it (the reminder x3/confirmation x1) and back to bed without many questions in 8 minutes. Then we awoke happy as could be at 7am on the dot. I am THRILLED! :mrgreen:

Very grateful to Anna and this amazing life changing book. FOR FREE!
Son, born Nov 19/2017
Another son, born May 16/2020
TorsMamma
Forumets ordförande
Inlägg: 11152
Blev medlem: fre 17 nov 2006, 09:25
Ort: Stockholms Skärgård

Re: About to start GNS cure for 4 month old

Inlägg av TorsMamma »

Wwweeeeeeeiiii! \:D/ =D> :thumbsup:
Tor 2006
:heart: BB barn från början. Sov sin första 12h natt 5 dagar före 4 mån, Diplomerad SS vid 6 mån
:heart:

:heart: FTLOC child from the beginning. Slept his first 12 hour night 5 days before 4 months. :heart:
TorsMamma
Forumets ordförande
Inlägg: 11152
Blev medlem: fre 17 nov 2006, 09:25
Ort: Stockholms Skärgård

Re: About to start GNS cure for 4 month old

Inlägg av TorsMamma »

Hello Gen.Pe how are you doing now with the cure?
Tor 2006
:heart: BB barn från början. Sov sin första 12h natt 5 dagar före 4 mån, Diplomerad SS vid 6 mån
:heart:

:heart: FTLOC child from the beginning. Slept his first 12 hour night 5 days before 4 months. :heart:
Gen.Pe
Inlägg: 49
Blev medlem: tis 20 mar 2018, 00:07
Ort: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Re: About to start GNS cure for 4 month old

Inlägg av Gen.Pe »

All 4 days and nights of the cure was better than I expected! He’s been sleeping 12 hours with minimal waking! I’m so happy to know that I don’t have to be afraid he’ll wake up- if he does I know exactly what to do!

I am needing urgent help tho on:
We started solids as the book recommended. He’s been fine. Until today, after every meal solid and breastmilk he throws up 1-2 ounces. He’s not normally a spit up baby. Could it be the solids? Should I stop with the solids for a day and see? If I do and I only breastfeed him at supper now...will he sleep through the night still? If he doesn’t I can only assume he’ll be hungry- in this special circumstance I can’t breastfeed him during the night right? If I do it’ll mess up the whole cure? WHAT DO I DO? #-o
Son, born Nov 19/2017
Another son, born May 16/2020
TorsMamma
Forumets ordförande
Inlägg: 11152
Blev medlem: fre 17 nov 2006, 09:25
Ort: Stockholms Skärgård

Re: About to start GNS cure for 4 month old

Inlägg av TorsMamma »

What solids do you give him? 1-2 ounces is not much and when a baby is really full they will spit up what they feel is too much. I wouldn't worry to much about it his little stomach will catch up most likely. We are used to babies spitting up small amounts since we want babies to be very full and well being.
When you get the FTLoC you will read about this in the book.

Good job on the cure!

Ps. it is correct, if you start breastfeed you cannot continue the cure, you will need to feed him at night and that takes the effect of the jingle away. Ds.
Tor 2006
:heart: BB barn från början. Sov sin första 12h natt 5 dagar före 4 mån, Diplomerad SS vid 6 mån
:heart:

:heart: FTLOC child from the beginning. Slept his first 12 hour night 5 days before 4 months. :heart:
Gen.Pe
Inlägg: 49
Blev medlem: tis 20 mar 2018, 00:07
Ort: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Re: About to start GNS cure for 4 month old

Inlägg av Gen.Pe »

Ok so we ended up taking my son to emergency as per the health link 1-800# nurse. The missing piece to the story is he slipped with me in the tub and went underwater for 5 seconds and could have sucked in air. They were worried about pulmonary oedema.

It obviously messed up his sleep and eating. We ceased solids for supper just breast. Went to the hospital and sat for 4 hours. It was too crazy and loud and light for him to sleep in the carriage. Instead of bed at 7, it was 11:30pm. When I put him down to sleep I didn’t feed him the breast throughout the night but did twice at the hospital.

Anyways he still slept straight through until 7 without waking but now he won’t nap! His morning nap, the whole time, was a fight.

Should we repeat the cure? Or what’s best to get him back in track?

He could perhaps just be over tired and maybe the habits from the cure are still in tact? Any advice would be appreciated!
Son, born Nov 19/2017
Another son, born May 16/2020
TorsMamma
Forumets ordförande
Inlägg: 11152
Blev medlem: fre 17 nov 2006, 09:25
Ort: Stockholms Skärgård

Re: About to start GNS cure for 4 month old

Inlägg av TorsMamma »

Hi, so sorry to hear, I hope they said he is ok?

If he is ok, just start straight where you were. He is small, he will not question the hospital things are different there. But at home things are as they should, that is the message! So don't compensate or do different, don't start over. Just continue where you were. You will within the next 9 years "fall off the wagon" from time to time. So it is like the saying once shame on you twice shame on me. (but it is better in Swedish because we say once is not a problem but twice = new habit)
So If you do something "off" the book once nothing will happen. But if you continue doing it it is your new habit = Message. You cannot trust what I did I will now do something different.

Just se it for what it was, one time thing, and now we keep going where we were. You can do it! :D
Tor 2006
:heart: BB barn från början. Sov sin första 12h natt 5 dagar före 4 mån, Diplomerad SS vid 6 mån
:heart:

:heart: FTLOC child from the beginning. Slept his first 12 hour night 5 days before 4 months. :heart:
Gen.Pe
Inlägg: 49
Blev medlem: tis 20 mar 2018, 00:07
Ort: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Re: About to start GNS cure for 4 month old

Inlägg av Gen.Pe »

Exactly! He is just fine thank Gooood. [-o< These things happen but I tell you I was destroyed and felt terrible.

Anyways before hearing from you I did, instinctively, stick to my guns! His naps were a bit off yesterday but it is now 5am the next day... his night has gone ok- woke up 4 times but only needed to give one message and the rest were jingles.

I am so grateful for this book, finding it was divine intervention. I praised it to my mommy group and you’ll soon have more ladies and babies to give this life changing experience to. =P~

Ps. Do I wait until the follow up week to post my before and after story?
Son, born Nov 19/2017
Another son, born May 16/2020
TorsMamma
Forumets ordförande
Inlägg: 11152
Blev medlem: fre 17 nov 2006, 09:25
Ort: Stockholms Skärgård

Re: About to start GNS cure for 4 month old

Inlägg av TorsMamma »

I'm sooooo glad for you. You may post before and after story whenever you wish. There is a topic for this here in the forum if you can find it and post there is perfect! :D Now keep up the good work and you can in your turn support other mothers with me! If you wish also answer here if you wish! :D :heart:
Tor 2006
:heart: BB barn från början. Sov sin första 12h natt 5 dagar före 4 mån, Diplomerad SS vid 6 mån
:heart:

:heart: FTLOC child from the beginning. Slept his first 12 hour night 5 days before 4 months. :heart:
Gen.Pe
Inlägg: 49
Blev medlem: tis 20 mar 2018, 00:07
Ort: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Re: About to start GNS cure for 4 month old

Inlägg av Gen.Pe »

Hello! Just wanted to give an update and ensure all is as it should be. I have re read the peace and security chapters in this book as I noticed lots of commenters recommend doing so after the cure has been completed. I have no doubt this is exactly what my son needs and will continue to need! I love this book. I hosted my moms group at my home and taught them about the book! I think you’ll soon have new parents to coach through this amazing process! :mrgreen:

For the most part things have been just wonderful. It’s been almost 3 weeks since the follow up week ended. I would say in that time we have had 2-3 horrid afternoon naps (the 2 hour one between 1130-130pm) where he wakes 45-60 min early and will wail angrily the whole time. I give jingles in different tones every 5/10 minutes but if that doesn’t work after a few rounds then I go in and give the message when he is inconsolable...is this bad? I have read comments too that relapses are normal still but I have also read not to use the buffing or fanning unless it’s critical so I may have failed there. And read to keep the jingle to a minimum. I am trying to be mindful of this but I don’t really want him to “cry it out” which he will do if I don’t intervene. Most nights are good too. There has been about 4 nights where he wakes up from flip flopping around in his crib (he’s really staring to move now =P~ ) to the point where he rolls onto his back and scares himself or hits the side of the crib- clearly I go in- I reposition him and exit with the jingle. Is this ok? And as many parents have also experienced it seems there has been a handful of times where he wakes between 3-6am and it takes effort to get him back to bed. Usually an hour of jingling in intervals. Overall I am in a much better place and we are all enjoying sleep and daytime activities that much more!! :lol:

I do hope I am doing things as recommended?
Son, born Nov 19/2017
Another son, born May 16/2020
mamaA
Rådgivare/advisor
Inlägg: 1641
Blev medlem: tor 08 nov 2012, 13:37
Ort: Ystad

Re: About to start GNS cure for 4 month old

Inlägg av mamaA »

Hi!
Those rollingexercices at night can be quite annoying :wink: , you can put rolled up towels under the mattress on both sides, that way he only has a narrow space to lay in which may make it harder to roll over. Do you have a bumper in the crib? That should prevent him from hitting the sides of the crib. I really recommend those free standing bumpers that are thick, makes it cosy and protects from injuries. I would go out with just a quiet jingle outside the door, to not make so much fuss, it´s night after all.

I think you should let the jingle work when he wakes up to early from the nap, buffing/fanning are for CRISIS only. Listen to him! Often the babies are angry which is hard to fix quickly. You have to let them get it out of their system a little and then the jingle comes in. He may not go back to sleep that nap but he will in the future if you are consistent. Here I would use household noises a lot actually. If my son woke up to early I would start loading the dishwasher(right outside his room) and slam quite a lot while putting the dishes in, then the sound from the dishwasher would help a little also. With the sound you give the message: It´s safe to go back to sleep, I´m here! You can also use the vaccum, tv, washer, radio etc, many use Mozart.

In the morning you should be really careful about entering the room, It´s almost a given that they won´t go back to sleep then. Kepp clear of the room 1-2 hours before the wake up time.
James 11-03-05
Finn 14-09-19
SM-barn så klart!
Gen.Pe
Inlägg: 49
Blev medlem: tis 20 mar 2018, 00:07
Ort: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Re: About to start GNS cure for 4 month old

Inlägg av Gen.Pe »

Thanks! I’ll keep the tools only for a crisis then and limit my jingles throughout the night. I do keep them quiet unless he’s ramped up and can’t hear them then I use another tone. Please define what you consider a CRISIS? I do understand each child is different but in general? Maybe mine differs from yours and I go in too soon to give the message?

I do have rolled up swaddle blankets (the most breathable kind) with his mattress to limit the rolling. It helps but doesn’t stop him sometimes haha. That’s the only traffic there is at night- me repositioning him. Yes we are busy with supper and dishes etc from 7-9pm usually and then I use a noise machine until I go to bed around 10pm, then I turn everything off and it’s quiet. Usually if he wakes up in the hours of the wolf I will turn it on again and I usually turn it on each morning while his dad gets ready for work. No matter how much I ask him the man can’t seem to get ready quietly without shutting doors etc loudly. #-o it definitely helps!

Thanks for your responses.
Son, born Nov 19/2017
Another son, born May 16/2020
mamaA
Rådgivare/advisor
Inlägg: 1641
Blev medlem: tor 08 nov 2012, 13:37
Ort: Ystad

Re: About to start GNS cure for 4 month old

Inlägg av mamaA »

Hi!

Crisis I would define when the baby is so hysterical that he/she gets stuck in the crying, here you must differentiate the sad cry from the "I think I`m done sleeping and want somebody to pick me up NOW -cry". You can´t tell them apart by how long they last because the angry cry can last VERY long too. I would say that most cries are angrycries but that´s my experience from my children. It can take the whole naptime if they wake to early to work with the jingle which of course leaves the baby tired and effects the awake time following BUT you will notice a difference the next time it happens that the protests will not be so frequent and he may also fall asleep again. It shouldn´t take more than three times in total before he gets the message and gives a little grumble at the jingle and then falls asleep again.

Is the bedroom dark during the night? It should be pitchdark, no light coming in.It gets light very early now which can effekt early mornings. At naptime you want to keep it dark to although pitchdark is not neccesary then. Is he sleeps in the pram you put a blanket or pram-curtain over.
James 11-03-05
Finn 14-09-19
SM-barn så klart!
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