1year old cured at 8months, now resisting

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Judith van Til
Inlägg: 7
Blev medlem: mån 05 okt 2015, 15:09

1year old cured at 8months, now resisting

Inlägg av Judith van Til »

Hi,

My daughter was doing fine on the cure for a while, we cured her at 8 months so she has been on the cure for 4months now. She was sleeping well through the night and also went to bed for all naps/nighttime with a jingle. We had a few struggles a little while ago, but we shortened the morning nap and all was well, so that was a perfect solution.

Then suddenly the struggles popped up again but this time much worse. She would sit up in bed, we had to hold her down with strong force in order to fan her, she is strong and would continually sit up. If we held her down that way she would get more upset and cry until she choked and vomited several times. We tried a little longer after that, but if she kept vomiting from being so upset, we were getting no where. (she is a baby that knows what she wants, and since a month we notice this is getting worse. She is 1years old now). If we did any buffing she would get even more angry and move her bottom around to ensure buffing became impossible. Clearly she did not want to be buffed, i think because she associates buffing with sleeping, and clearly she didn't want to sleep. Eventually it was getting so bad, we took her out of bed and skipped her morning nap. By afternoon, she was so tired she went in easily.

We decided we should probably eliminate her morning nap permenantly and only put her to sleep in the afternoon. This worked well for 2 days. And last night it was back to the screaming/choking/ throwing up. My husband took her out of her bed after a long time of trying. First she cried hysterical for at least another 15min, then she was wide awake and chatting away. He walked around in her room and after at least an hour of chatting to ? she finally fell asleep in his arms. Then this afternoon we had exactly the same problem, this time she was awake for only 30min, but still the hysteria was still there. The problem is also that once she is hysterical, even taking her out of bed and trying to get her to sleep is a nightmare. It seems once she hits that point an has in her mind what she wants, she won't let it go.

We don't know what to do with her. We don't want to keep pulling her out of bed, but we also don't want her so hysterical that she ends up throwing up. Also the force we have to use to keep her down is immense, and the more we try and fan her, the more she pushes her body up and fights us. She is resisting the buffing so we are unsure as how to get her into a peaceful state of mind to sleep...

What do we do? She has always had a very strong temperament, but clearly its coming out even more so since she turned one. How can we get her to calm down if buffing and fanning clearly is not working anymore....

Do you have any experience with defiant toddlers who were once cured, but suddenly reject sleeping?
Or experiences with throwing up out of hysteria?

Can you help us?

Thanks!
Judith
TorsMamma
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Inlägg: 11152
Blev medlem: fre 17 nov 2006, 09:25
Ort: Stockholms Skärgård

Re: 1year old cured at 8months, now resisting

Inlägg av TorsMamma »

Hi Judith and welcome back.

Please read about the 1-year old in "For the love of children" then you will understand her "new temper" better and how to handle things. :wink:

What is the schedule like now? How many hours sleep does she get?

She should now have 12 hour night and about 1,5 hour mid day sleep. For instance:

Night 19-07 and midday nap 12-13.30 a big lunch before the midday nap as well.

I hope you still have the crib? You will need it until she is almost 4 years old, if not, bring it back is my advice!

You cannot make a child sleep, the cure is not a Putting you child to sleep cure, it is a calming a sad child so they can put them selves to sleep. Just to clarify. To me it seems like you have been overworking the sleep a bit lately.

If you put her to bed (in a pitch dark room, you can't see your hand in front of you during the day) and she is not truely SAD. Then leave her there. She can chat, talk, sit, sing, make noise and so on as much as she likes. Called privacy! If you put her down with the fan or buffing when she is not really sad, then she will likely get very, very upset!

So you have the laughter at least 20 min outside the room, fly her into bed och out with the most happy, firm jingle you can get. Always a minimum of X4. (X4,X6,X8 - X12) and the jingle sets the . to the conversation. If she needs 10 min later she gets a reminder jingle LOUDLY from outside the door. Ensure you make lots of houshold noise, talking, and so on. She needs to have something else to listen to than her self.

No, IF she gets truly SAD really SAD :cry: THEN you might walk in and put her down with a short fan. If she calms down the second you walk in, DON'T touch her, just turn around and walk out with the jingle! If not calm, then the fan WILL work and calm her down.

But please read on about the 1-year old and their temper and development as well. :D
Tor 2006
:heart: BB barn från början. Sov sin första 12h natt 5 dagar före 4 mån, Diplomerad SS vid 6 mån
:heart:

:heart: FTLOC child from the beginning. Slept his first 12 hour night 5 days before 4 months. :heart:
Judith van Til
Inlägg: 7
Blev medlem: mån 05 okt 2015, 15:09

Re: 1year old cured at 8months, now resisting

Inlägg av Judith van Til »

Hi,

Thanks for your reply. I will read that book, I haven't read that one.

Now she is sleeping 7-7 and 12:30-2pm
Although as she is resisting the last two evenings so by the time she is actually sleeping its 8pm.
She is still sleeping in the crib.

Maybe I worded it wrong in my message but I understand it's calming her so she will sleep. The thing is, she seems uncalmable. Her room is pitch black. She is happy during the fun dancing (which is about 10min, we need to do 20min?) and even when the lights are turned off, but then as soon as she is put into her crib she cries. I jingle x 4 and leave, repeat if necessary etc. This is what we had been doing all the time, but now when we leave, when we jingle, she continues to cry. If we do a quick fan, she continues to cry, she sits up in bed and looks in de direction of the door crying. (we have a babyfone camera, so can see what she is doing) No matter how many short fan's we do, or jingling, she continues to cry herself into eventually hysteria and throws up because she is choking from all the crying. If we do a long fan where we hold her down, she gets even worse, and buffing makes her complete mad. So we cannot get her calm in her bed...

what you are writing, we are doing, but it doenst seem to work anymore like it used to...

What do you mean by overworking the sleep a bit?
Judith van Til
Inlägg: 7
Blev medlem: mån 05 okt 2015, 15:09

Re: 1year old cured at 8months, now resisting

Inlägg av Judith van Til »

Just let me specify a little more, I analyzed what happened tonight. She is laughing while I let her turn off the lights by herself. She is flown into bed on her stomach. As soon as she is in bed, she will sit up and scream. I don't even have a chance to put her blankets on. She even pushes them away. If I try and lie her down she resists heavily and gets hysterical. So after two attempts to lie her down, I leave her sitting down, jingle x 4 and leave, she keeps crying, not hysterically, but it never gets any less after no matter how many jingles. As the time progresses she cries more and more until eventually she is hysterical. I go in several times in between the jingles to do a quick fan, but fanning itself is nearly impossible without "force", as she continually will sit up and fight the fan. Eventually she is screaming so much she chokes from the screaming and throws up. (probably due to her reflux). The first time I place a new sheet and continue, the second time I take her out of bed because it doesnt seem to be getting any better, only worse and walk around with her till she sleeps.
(this time I didnt do a long fan, but if I do that, the result is exactly the same, maybe even worse. Buffing she also resists and rolls over or moves her bottom around) ...

I will read 'for the love of children' though to get more insight into this age..
TorsMamma
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Inlägg: 11152
Blev medlem: fre 17 nov 2006, 09:25
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Re: 1year old cured at 8months, now resisting

Inlägg av TorsMamma »

Hi,

Ok, so all the tools besides the jingle just make things worse. That means either she is not truly sad and needs calming down with the tools, or you don't have the correct "attitude" with the tools to make them work. If you enter in a state of frustration, anxious she will throw up, or not more than 100% calm she will pick up on this and react.

So one thing is how can we calm her down not using buffing or sunfeather?

Does the cry vary? Up, down, high, low and so on?

What if you play extreme loud Strauss (the kind of music they have at the cirkus)? Will she stop shortly and listen to that? the hairdryer? The washing machine? Anything but sitting and listening to her own cry.

It only takes 2 nights in a row to break a good pattern and for a child to question all the "new" routines. And Now you already have a new routine in place. She screams, you jingle and enter the room, She screams louder, you sun feather some more, she throws up and gets picked up and on top of that gets rocked to sleep. Now you are the prop to be able to go to sleep. :roll:

So Nr. 1 is to be extreamly calm, if she screams until she throws up (this is her new pattern and it works, it will most likely get worse before it gets better, sorry to say) you just enter and change the bed from the most emergency things. No picking up. Exit the room with a new calm, assertive happiest of jingles. ALL IS FINE and YOU CAN SLEEP message!
She screams and throws up again, you change the sheet quickly, if necessary don't give her any covers so you only need to change the bottom sheet.

Once calm, you give the confirmation jingle X4 again.

A little bit like hitting the reset button and reado the cure!

You need to ensure that the jingle actually does its job correctly. When she is sad truly sad the jingle will work. However if she screams herself to throwing up she is most likely in "state of affect" and some children very quickly learns to use this, because it works. (my son did this, he could scream until he couldn't breathe, so I know) The key is to stay calm, keep removing the dirty sheet, and continue. It will take anything from 3-10 days before it will get better, depending on how stubborn they are. Once they realize that affect dosn't work they will stop.

The only thing is, don't take up out of bed in this state, that is confirming that it works and that she should continue.

About the jingle, if you say the jingle X4 and decide it didn't work and then enter the room. Then you just trained her that the jingle mean hold out, it will soon enter the room. So you never ever say the jingle and enter the room shortly after that. :wink:

So start on night 2 according to the cheat sheet and do night 2 for 2 nights, and then do night 3 for 2 nights, and then night 4 for 2 nights (I think you get it :P )
She needs to be given the chance to be "retrained" to the cure again and find that sleeping is good once again. She is questioning things and not getting satisfying answers. That is why it keeps escalating.

I hope I have been clear? Please keep asking otherwise. :D
Tor 2006
:heart: BB barn från början. Sov sin första 12h natt 5 dagar före 4 mån, Diplomerad SS vid 6 mån
:heart:

:heart: FTLOC child from the beginning. Slept his first 12 hour night 5 days before 4 months. :heart:
Judith van Til
Inlägg: 7
Blev medlem: mån 05 okt 2015, 15:09

Re: 1year old cured at 8months, now resisting

Inlägg av Judith van Til »

Hi,

Your answer was clear, thank you so much for taking the time to answer. Shortly after she got a lung infection and after that a few other things, so we decided to wait. As soon as she was all better we started. So far it's working to recure her and she is responding to the classical music like you suggested. Since she was 1wk old she has been sleeping with white noise, we tried just the music but that didnt work i think because she was missing her white noise. So now, she has white noise AND the music loudly. The only thing is, because the music is so loud, and she has the white noise on top of that, there is no way she hears us jingling. So far it has been us going in when she decides to stand up (we can see on the camera), lying her down and jingle on the way out x4. But once outside the room, she cannot hear the jingle anymore, so basicly we cannot answer her cries. What do you suggest? Just leave it like this? She does eventually fall asleep. First day was 2 hours!(not continual crying, she would try to sleep, then cry for 10min, then try again etc), the next day 45min and now slowly becoming less every day. So she is not crying that long anymore and also not that loud. But we cannot jingle anymore other than when we walk out of the room....
Sarisparis
Rådgivare/advisor
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Blev medlem: mån 10 maj 2010, 14:31
Ort: Frankrike

Re: 1year old cured at 8months, now resisting

Inlägg av Sarisparis »

Hello Judith :D

Sorry to hear your daughter's been ill, I hope she and you all are all good now.

The cure is supposed to last 11 days and so is the regular usage of the tools, except the jingle that continues to signal "time to sleep" everytime the child is put to bed. Try to keep the music as a tool, that is not something you put on preventively every night. The jingle is key in the cure, as that's how you communicate with your child. The cure is all about communication: your job as a parent is to reassure your child that everything is just fine and that she can go to sleep perfectly safe. You must be able to communicate with her, listen to her and she must be able to hear your voice. Even if you repeat the same sentence over and over again (the jingle), your message can be very different according to your voice (repeat p162 in the GNS-book!). You're supposed to answer her cries with your voice and build a communication that convinces your daughter that all is fine.
Please read again the basics of the cure : Peace, Security and Enjoyment. And also the Safari, a great illustration of the spirit of the cure.

And don't forget to have fun with your daughter daytime. Good days makes it a lot easier to go to bed pleased with the day that passed and confident in the day to come. And never ever forget the bedtime laugh :D

Keep confident, she wants to sleep just as much as you do. Good luck, keep us posted =D>

:heart:
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