3 years old - suddenly not tired at bedtime

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Darls3000
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Blev medlem: tis 04 maj 2010, 09:59

3 years old - suddenly not tired at bedtime

Inlägg av Darls3000 »

Hello there
It's a long time since I posted here and I hope that you can help me.
My daughter who is 3 years and 4 months does not nap anymore and wakes everyday at 7.00 and bedtime is at 8. However, in the last few weeks, it takes us till 9pm to get her to go to sleep and she keeps saying she isn't tired (which she must be) and she makes excuses to get out of bed all the time like needing a wee, needing a poo, wanting water, wanting lip salve for her lips!!

So I will take her to the toilet and no talking just to go and wee and straight back to bed but she is already trying to think of another excuse to delay bedtime and I find it very frustrating because I know she will be tired in the morning and I just need her to go to sleep at a reasonable time.

What do you think we are doing wrong.? Her day is very active. She goes to nursery every morning till 12 then has down time to relax and then goes to play in the park or swim in the fat on. She has a lot of fun and then plays at home with books, jigsaws, drawing etc. east at 5.30 and then she plays a little bit more and then bath and bedtime.

This all coincides with when we finally got her to leave her cot for her 'big girl bed'. She now is getting around 90 minutes less sleep than when she was in the cot but I didn't think I could keep her in the cot for much longer as she is getting so big!

I would really appreciate advice. I re read FTLOC and always use the same repetition and tone of voice when putting her to bed, I am always consistent and so is my husband but it is getting tiring now and I worry about her ot sleeping till 9pm at night. That feels so late to me.

Thank you for reading this.

Katherine
Darling daughter born June 21, 2009
Sarisparis
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Blev medlem: mån 10 maj 2010, 14:31
Ort: Frankrike

Re: 3 years old - suddenly not tired at bedtime

Inlägg av Sarisparis »

Hello Darls3000 :D

Glad to hear that you have FTLOC and that you like it. Have you read about "The terrible two's I want to, I do not want to"? I guess that is one of the explanations of your daughters behavior. Go through it again, and do not forget to read about little Sean that finds a hundred excuses not to go to bed (p 420).

Another one is probable the fact that you have changed her bed. It's recommended to keep until after the tantrum age. So one advice would be to take back the cot. If she's indeed physically too big to be comfortable, I suggest you rewind the tape. How did you present this change? A good advice is to make a real party about this: she has a NEW bed now :P \:D/ :-D

:heart:
Darls3000
Inlägg: 29
Blev medlem: tis 04 maj 2010, 09:59

Re: 3 years old - suddenly not tired at bedtime

Inlägg av Darls3000 »

Thank youbSarisparis for your reply. I have raj
Ken your advice and re-read the story of Sean and ut was very familiar, we have lots of requests all the time at bedtime but it just isntvgettingbany better. For the first time I fear we have a new bad habit that is here to stay. She has never not liked being left in her room to sleep but every night now we struggle for an hour with her not wanting us to leave. I am always very confident with her that all is okay in the world, nothing to fear etc and u leave her with the same jingle she has had since she was 5 months but no joy.
I am really confused.
She has accepted her big girl bed but that was definitely what started it all. Is there any other advice you can give me?
My method is to be consistentbandcreoeat myself over and over and over and be as boring as possible. This snt working so I need to start doing something different. Perhaps it is the terrible twos. Her be.haviour in the day is very good - calm, happy, good manners lots and lots of playing and laughing. But bedtime is a different matter even though we still go to bed with lots of laughter and happiness. Please help if you can. I hate it when she only has 9/9.5 hours sleep instead if 11.

X
Darling daughter born June 21, 2009
Sarisparis
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Re: 3 years old - suddenly not tired at bedtime

Inlägg av Sarisparis »

Yes, I think most of us parents have met a little Sean once or twice. :wink:

Maybe the reason she recalls you as much as she does in the end of the day is that her needs haven't been fully satisfied during the day?

What do her days look like? You mention she plays and laughs a lot which is great, but does she participate in some real stuff as well? At her age, one is perfectly capable of a lot!
At home with my kids, my magic recipe to put a gang of happy kids to bed (and having them staying there, in peace and quiet) is to make sure we've had a great day.
A great day such in having had lots of fun, having been outside for at least a couple of hours but even more important that we've actually worked together. This is not necessarily complicated and ambitious, cooking dinner or cleaning the bathroom are great tasks for children. When they feel they have actually contributed, that we - as a family - are better off thanks to their participation, then they can go to bed feeling just happy about the day that passed. And sure they will have another great day tomorrow.

So take a look at what your days look like, if you can involve her more. If you're separated daytime, it can be as simple as putting her in charge of carrying the key and open the door when you get home, getting the mail, participating in dinner preparation, etc. Do things together and do not forget to really thank her for her precious help (no irony).

It might be a good idea to start the evening procedure half an hour earlier so that she does not miss too much sleep if she's becoming a little Sean. :wink:

And keep up your plan of becoming the most boring mum there is once bedtime is passed. =D>

:heart:
Darls3000
Inlägg: 29
Blev medlem: tis 04 maj 2010, 09:59

Re: 3 years old - suddenly not tired at bedtime

Inlägg av Darls3000 »

Thank you so much for the long response and apologies for such a late reply.
My daughter is now 3 years and 10 months and we got past that hurdle of her not wanting to go to sleep at 8 but after a few months, we are back in the same situation. At 8pm, she starts saying Im not tired mummy, I don't want to go to sleep. I then say that she can read her book for five minutes in her bed and then I want to come and check on her and see that she has gone to sleep. This really worked well for a few months and I would go back to her room and the book would be beside the bed and she would be asleep. But not anymore. Now she actually starts trying to leave the bedroom and I end up snapping at her because I am really frustrated. I hate this and it makes me feel guilty. Up till that point, we have followed our routine and had lots of fun, books, chat, brush teeth and then bed and then it all changes in a second.

her days are active, she is up at 7 for nursery and she is always very tired because she is going to bed too late (she finally goes to bed between 8.30-9) and then she goes for 4 hours to paint, play, learn to read and write, run around outside etc. and then she goes to the park for 2-3 hours everyday, lots of fresh air, climbing trees, playing with her little friends, swimming, going to local petting zoo, ballet etc. Lots of activity and then she comes home and helps to get the dinner ready and wash dishes and tidy her toys. Then I get home from work and she watches 15 mins of TV before bathtime. So I think she is filling her days with activity and variety and lots of quiet time in between activity but she just keeps saying she isn't tired. I hate that it has made me start to dread bedtime :cry: And the same for my husband, he ends up getting frustrated with her too and it makes us feel terrible. We don't shout at her but it turns the mood from a happy one to a very frustrated one.
Please can you advise me what else I could be doing? We still use our jingle, she has a night light, the routine is the same and maybe that is the problem?

Hope you have some words that will help me,

thanks x
Darling daughter born June 21, 2009
Sarisparis
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Blev medlem: mån 10 maj 2010, 14:31
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Re: 3 years old - suddenly not tired at bedtime

Inlägg av Sarisparis »

Hi again Darls3000 :D

My first thought when I read your post is that your girl is asking for your company. She seems to have great days - much fun, but not that much time with her parents, if I get it right. I take it she comes home with someone that is not you (her dad, perhaps?) and that you come home just before bedtime. So that the only she sees of you is your profile while you're watching tv together just before going to bed.

What I meant with "great days" is not necessarily lots of activities outside the home without her family. Kids need to be bored some times as well, life can't be a party all the time, otherwise the party never begins. :wink:

I repeat what I said earlier:

If you're separated daytime, it can be as simple as putting her in charge of carrying the key and open the door when you get home, getting the mail, participating in dinner preparation, etc. Do things together and do not forget to really thank her for her precious help (no irony).

It might be a good idea to start the evening procedure half an hour earlier so that she does not miss too much sleep if she's becoming a little Sean.


I would not start to negotiate with her at bedtime, you the parent decide when it's bedtime. It's perfectly all right not to go to sleep at once, but once you have said good night to each other (after a real god laugh), it's Night. That is, if she gets up or calls you, you are the most boring mum in the world who only leads her back to bed repeating the same thing. "We'll talk about that tomorrow, now it's time to go to bed.". Personnally, I do not use the jingle in the same way once my kids has learned to talk and make themselves understood in words. If my son calls for me from bed, I normally go in once (and give some water as that is what generally is asked for). Then I repeat my good night, but in a less fun way (not angry, just firm), Now It's Time to Sleep.

I see your daughter has a night light, I wonder if this is what might keep her awake after going to bed. Remeber, the cure (and all Anna's philosophy) is about the child being perfectly secure in bed. No need to have a light to know that everything is ok. If you do have a light (or inefficient curtains), it can be quite fun to stay awake. Pitch dark is better in my opinion, once in bed, it's night and there's no doubt about it.

What do you think?

:heart:
Darls3000
Inlägg: 29
Blev medlem: tis 04 maj 2010, 09:59

Re: 3 years old - suddenly not tired at bedtime

Inlägg av Darls3000 »

Sari saris
Thanks for your response. It was hard for me to read because I found your theory difficult to accept.
I obviously hate to think that my daughter not being tired at night is because she wants to see me. I need to work and work 3/4 days a week. She is now in school from 9-3.40 everyday. I am home at 6.15 and we play, have bath time, read and bedtime leafing up till 8 then it is bedtime. We have just had one month on holiday where we were all together everyday and because we were staying with family, she slept in our room. With a curtain between of course! ;). Now since we are back, she still fights sleep till 9 or 9.30 and keeps saying she is not tired, she is hungry, she is scared is her latest one or that she wants us to stay with her till she falls asleep.

I am lost. I spend as much time with her during the day as I can, drop her at school and then go to work leave work to get home for 6.30. I don't work on Fridays.
She has slept well overall throughout the last 2 years but we are going through a bad patch. We feel that since coming back from holiday, she just lived sleeping in the same room as us so much that she wants to always do it. Tonight she was crying and said 'mummy I wish we were in America because then you would sleep in the same room as me'.
I am aware when she says she is scared that I quickly reassure her that all is fine then leave the room. I did it about 25 times tonight and she was soooo tired but determined to fall asleep only when I was in the room. Which obviously I didn't want to do.

I feel like a bad mum now since reading your message but i try very hard to do a great job. She has chores which she does amazingly well - gets her own breakfast, loads dishwasher with her dishes, loads machine, hangs washing out, makes her bed, helps me in the garden. She is very good and loves how much we praise her when she offers to help. We have the same bed routine, consistent messages, lots of love, cuddles and laughter at bedtime. Never more than 20 mins of tv in a day, lots of quiet time with imaginary play too.
But she is still never tired at 8. She still wakes at 7.15/7.30.
What do you think?
Thanks
X
Darling daughter born June 21, 2009
Darls3000
Inlägg: 29
Blev medlem: tis 04 maj 2010, 09:59

Re: 3 years old - suddenly not tired at bedtime

Inlägg av Darls3000 »

Just to add that when I get home, we play building houses/dens or hide and seek and run around together and she runs her bath. We have lots if fun at bathtime and then enjoy the 90 mins before bedtime. It's quality time. She has a role. I have a role.

Thanks just wanted to say that because I am feeling very poor as a mother at the moment. I always try. Always.
Darling daughter born June 21, 2009
annawahlgren
Upphovskvinna SHN-kuren
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Blev medlem: mån 22 nov 2004, 22:46
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Re: 3 years old - suddenly not tired at bedtime

Inlägg av annawahlgren »

Darls3000 skrev:Now she actually starts trying to leave the bedroom and I end up snapping at her because I am really frustrated. I hate this and it makes me feel guilty. - - I hate that it has made me start to dread bedtime :cry:
:D Dear Darls3000, nothing is new under the sun. Don't feel guilty - for one thing, that won't help. For another, guilt is best friends with Drama. Don't dramatize any more. Your little sweetheart needs her (at least) 11 hour night sleep - period. She is not to be pitied. She's got a good life. Bless her and all of you!

No lights in her bedroom. Sun-sleeping darkness and protection from danger is what make people sleep calmly. No "reading" on her own in bed. All joyous and loving activities should take place before bedtime and somewhere else (just like you did before). Then, in less than two minutes, put her to bed and nighty-night! A kiss and a hug and a good night jingle and out. That's it. Over and out - regardless!

Please enjoy :lol: and learn from :roll: the little Trickster, pictured in FTLOC:


:arrow: *The trickster – a close relative of the eel (see “Something about personality”) goes to bed without so much as a murmur of protest. But no sooner does his head touch the pillow than he whimpers, “Mommeeee, I can’t sleep!”

“Time to sleep,” is the appropriate answer.

Now is the time to throw logic to the winds. “Time to sleep” is hardly a judicious response to the little trickster’s pitiful announcement that he can’t sleep. But it works.

The child is actually not making a statement. He’s asking a question. “Am I really supposed to go to sleep? Are you sure? Do I have to question this? Can I really just lie back and doze off? Can I take you at your word?”

The answer is yes. “It’s time for bed. Sleep well. I’ll see you in the morning.”

The trickster has the fine art of challenging parents down pat.

“Mommeeee… I feel sick!”

Most kids have parents who are nothing if not solicitous of their children’s health. And most parents tend to make far too much of little (often enough non-existing) aches and pains. When distraught parents rush into the bedroom all set to call 911, little tricksters compliment themselves on a job well done. It sometimes takes parents months to figure out that their kids are winding them up.

Tricksters have an uncanny knack for finding chinks in parental armour. Once is a coincidence, twice is a habit, three times is a lifestyle!

Don’t let things progress past twice. The second time the child protests, you should content yourself with standing outside the door and making it crystal clear that you’re not going to take the bait. “We’ll take care of it in the morning. Sleep well.”

If you want to make sure nothing’s afoot, you can sneak into the bedroom once your little trickster has fallen asleep and make sure he or she is not burning up with fever – a most unlikely eventuality. If on the off chance the situation is as serious as the heart-rending wailing would seem to imply, the child will not be able to sleep anyway, so the method is as near fool-proof as to make no difference. “Sleep well. We’ll take care of it in the morning.”

The trickster’s sleeves are deep indeed.
“I have to pee.”
“I’m thirsty.”
“I can’t sleep.”
“I’m scared.”
“I feel sick.”
“I’ve lost my teddy bear.”
“Something is poking me in bed.”
“My band-aid has fallen off.”
“I have to poo.”
“It’s so dark.”
“I’m cold.”
“My pillow is wet.”
“What if I have a bad dream… I did have a bad dream!”

And so on ad infinitum. Whatever it is, it can wait until morning. At least that should be your default position. “We’ll take care of it in the morning. Sleep well.”

Trips to the bathroom, if the urge is genuine, can’t really be delayed. You can get around this problem by putting a potty in the child’s room. “You can pee by yourself. Sleep well.”

Darkness can’t be remedied (nor should it be), and the illogical answer to complaints about it is, “Time for bed. See you in the morning.”
“But it’s so dark!”
“Sleep well.”

Of course you could explain that usually, nights are dark, and that nights are supposed to be dark, and that even the sun is asleep at night, and so are all the people and all the animals and all the houses… But then the little trickster will ask, “Why?” Whereupon an endlessly drawn out conversation will take place (all part of the entertainment plan), which is best, as said, left until morning.

Protests about imminent death from dehydration can be nipped in the bud either by placing a cup of water by the bed or by leaving a cup and a stool in the bathroom so the trickster can get water himself. “Get yourself some water and then go back to bed. Sleep well!” Take no notice of the child while he’s getting his drink and don’t follow him back into his bedroom.*


:heart:
:D Nio barn, arton barnbarn, tre barnbarnsbarn och några tusen nästanbarn :!:
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