Starting the cure

A parents' forum based on GNS (A Good Night's Sleep)
jazzlithi
Inlägg: 26
Blev medlem: sön 02 okt 2011, 09:16

Starting the cure

Inlägg av jazzlithi »

Hello!
We started the cure two days ago and I already feel some insecurities coming, so I decided to sign in the forum, maybe you can help me get rid of them?
The cure started very well, first night was uch better than we expected, our boy who is a little over 7 months old, fell asleep in 20 minutes, then woke up only 3times, the longest was for 10 minutes. The problem started during his mid-day nap (this nap has always been problematic, I want him to sleep 1 and half hour, but after 45 minutes I was alwas forced to push the carriage around, otherwise he didn´t sleep). He fell asleep after 15 minutes, I am not sure exactly if he didn´t fall asleep during rocking. I stoped immediatelly when he was lying still, but then he didn´t move at all... then, exactly after 45 minutes of sleep, he woke up, screamimng. I went there, rocked the carriage, when he was calm and still, I left with a jingle. But as soon as I stopped rocking, he started screaming. I left anyway with the jingle, gave him some time, but he was even near to calming down, so after some time I went back and rocked. And like this until the time for his nap was over.
Second night was amazing, he fell asleep right away and slept through until 5:15! But then, the same thing as at the carriage (except for it was my husband´s turn). He got calmer with buffing, but started screaming with the jingle and screamed more and more untill the next buffing.
I just want to ask - are we doinr something wronge, or shall we just wait untill he understands what the jingle means? Because so far I think, he just gets angry with it. But we really try not to overuse buffing, only when it is a crisis ... but his screaming was really critical, it was sad and out of control, everytime we stopped buffing ...
I read the book many times, I really understand it, we are very confident about what we are doing, but it still seems like it´s not working the was it´s supposed to.
I am sorry if I a bothering you with a stupid question ... I think I just need some support and I don´t know anyone who did this and could give me this support.
Thanks,
Ann
annawahlgren
Upphovskvinna SHN-kuren
Inlägg: 15366
Blev medlem: mån 22 nov 2004, 22:46
Ort: Gastsjön

Re: Starting the cure

Inlägg av annawahlgren »

:D Dear Ann, welcome :wink: :lol:

Please don't be that impatient. You just started the cure and already you seem more confused than the little boy himself, who this far has responded so wonderfully. Be happy and keep up the good work! Give him at least these four days - as wll as nights - to adjust to the new order, which of course IS confusing until he feels completely safe with it. (Which he simply cannot unless YOU do.)

You say you have read the book several times and forgive me for asking, but did you possibly choose those "easy" parts, the Tool Box and the Cheat Sheet, and left out the rest?

What you are working on now is the Calming, and you seem to be very successful (and that part IS pretty easy). There is another step, you know, to take once the calming works good enough, and that step's name is Safety.

Keep it in mind, always - and please, read the entire book. It 's so important not to lose focus (on Safety) so read it also during the very work, in order to keep up your Attitude. Add some patience, and you can't fail.

GOOD LUCK =D>
:D Nio barn, arton barnbarn, tre barnbarnsbarn och några tusen nästanbarn :!:
jazzlithi
Inlägg: 26
Blev medlem: sön 02 okt 2011, 09:16

Re: Starting the cure

Inlägg av jazzlithi »

Hello Anna,
thank you for your quick answer ... I know I am very insecure myself, I am trying so hard. I read the whole book, the chapter Security too, at least twice. I know how it´s supposed to go and that´s what I am trying. It just seems so wrong, every time I leave the calmed baby, he feels so insecure, that he starts crying so hard again. I try to answer him his questions, I try to be secure and confident and have an attitude that will make him feel secure eventually, as much as I can, I listen to him carefully and answer, but then I have to go in anyway and calm him again, because I am afraid he will vomit out of his screaming. It seems so wrong, this kind of cry. Maybe you are right, maybe it´s just my insecurity, I am aware of that.
I will be patient. Tonight is my turn (my husband goes to work tomorrow:), I will keep a positive attitude and we will see.
Thank you and have a good night!
Ann
annawahlgren
Upphovskvinna SHN-kuren
Inlägg: 15366
Blev medlem: mån 22 nov 2004, 22:46
Ort: Gastsjön

Re: Starting the cure

Inlägg av annawahlgren »

jazzlithi skrev:--- but then I have to go in anyway and calm him again, because I am afraid he will vomit out of his screaming. It seems so wrong, this kind of cry.
:D Please, dear Ann - this is not the Cry-It-Out method, or Controlled Crying Method. This is GNS. The tools are there for calming :!:
jazzlithi skrev:I will be patient.
Perhaps you misunderstand me? I do NOT mean that you should refrain from doing anything. Patience means endurance. If you need to jingle twenty-four times to make the little one finally listen to you, then you do it. You don't "try" one tool and then another and then nothing and then start over again. You go on patiently until things work. Do you understand me?

Perhaps you should think things over once more before you decide - and I mean decide - to see the cure through?

I repeat, this is NOT a let-the-baby-cry method, it is a help-the-baby-sleep-soundly CURE for sleep-deprived little children. Crying won't help.
:D Nio barn, arton barnbarn, tre barnbarnsbarn och några tusen nästanbarn :!:
jazzlithi
Inlägg: 26
Blev medlem: sön 02 okt 2011, 09:16

Re: Starting the cure

Inlägg av jazzlithi »

I know it´s not a "let a baby cry" method, I don´t want him to cry, I am doing my best. By being patient I don´t mean I am not doing anything. But maybe I misunderstood you? Can you please be more clear? By your answers I only get more insecure that all I am doing is wrong... I don´t want to start all over again, it´s working, we have made a progress and I can see the results now.
Last night was excellent, my baby fell asleep by himself, I didn´t need to buff or go in, I just jingled twice, he wasn´t protesting, he sounded actually sort of happy, then he fell asleep. He slept all night, At 5 he woke up, I jingled once and he fell asleep in 2 minutes, the same at 6, at 6:30 I woke him up. All day was great, he has been eating as much as never before, he is in a great mood.
My only problem are the day naps, I am not sure if I am doing it right, that´s why I needed an advice ... I put him to his carriage, he starts crying, I position, rock untill he is calm (about 30 seconds), then I leave with a jingle, he starts crying, I listen. At the beggining it´s more angry, it´s not hysterical, I answer with jingles, we talk, today I first felt that he listened to my day time jingle. During falling asleep during the day, I had to rock once or twice more, but then he listened to jingle and fell asleep by himself. The problem is the mid-day nap, when he wakes up after 45 minutes and then he doesn´t listen to the jingle at all, he works himself up to a hysterical cry, at the end I am rocking almost every minute, because he calms down only while I am rocking, but when I stop, he continues even more than before. I just can´t let him cry like that ... and that is what I am not sure about. How can I move a step forward? Do I just continue like that (calming with rocking, leaving with jingle, jingeling, if he is not listening and working hiself up, rocking again?) a do I have to be patient untill my answers make him secure enough even during the day and he will listen to the jingle?
Please don´t judge me, maybe I am just expressing myself wrong with my words, I really don´t let my baby cry and i understand the method and I think it´s amazing.
jazzlithi
Inlägg: 26
Blev medlem: sön 02 okt 2011, 09:16

Re: Starting the cure

Inlägg av jazzlithi »

Hi!
I just want to let you know our achievements and ask you a question ...
Well last night was amazing, my boy fell asleep totally by himself, i jingled only on my way out, he sounded happy and then there was silence ... I checked on him ten minutes later and he was sleeping soundly. Untill 6 in the morningh, I didn´t hear a thing, then he asked a bit, one answer was enough, he fell asleep happily and I had to wake him up 30 minutes lates. He was in great mood and ate even more than yesterday! Falling asleep in carriage goes much better now too, I rock only once, then i jingle couple times and in 4 to 5 minutes, he is asleep. It is still a problem when he wakes up after 45 minutes, there is still some crying, but I don´t let him work up to panic or hysteria, I go in and rock, and he actually managed to fall back asleep twice. I think he is getting so much better at falling asleep by himself.
About that question. I found out today, that I have to go to see a very close relative to hospital tomorrow. It´s necessary. I would postpone it if it wasn´t, it´s a real emergency and it has to be at the time of the mid-day nap :( I know it might throw us back to where we started, but the question is now, how to make the smallest damage possible? I think I have two options. One is to take him in a carriage and when it´s time for his nap, let him fall asleep as I do it now and then have someone walk the carriage the whole time, he should be sleeping, so he doesn´t wake up (since I will not be able to leave and rock and jingle if he wakes up, unfortunatelly I cannot and don´t want ask anyone to do it for me either) or I take him with me in a "bag" (a thing to carry him on my belly) and let him sleep in that for once. Which one of these possibilities do you think is worse?
Thank you very much, for your answers before too, I thought about it a lot and changed my attitude, I feel much stronger about what I am doing now.
Have a good day,
Ann
annawahlgren
Upphovskvinna SHN-kuren
Inlägg: 15366
Blev medlem: mån 22 nov 2004, 22:46
Ort: Gastsjön

Re: Starting the cure

Inlägg av annawahlgren »

:D Good - I like your renewed courage :wink: :lol:

So keep up the good work. After all, you just started the cure; you cannot expect everything to fall in place into each detail immediately.

As for practical details, I am sorry to say that I cannot advice you for every situation coming up - time does not allow, and I wouldn't do it anyway. You have to learn not to underestimate yourself. Use your common sense. Think things through beforehand, make a Plan, havea Plan B in your mind's pocket, and go for the best :wink: :lol:


O:) :heart: :sleep:

PS And do not forget to re-read the book. I dare say that whatever questions you have, you will find the answers there, once your eyes and mind are open to adjust them to your specific situation there and then :idea:
:D Nio barn, arton barnbarn, tre barnbarnsbarn och några tusen nästanbarn :!:
jazzlithi
Inlägg: 26
Blev medlem: sön 02 okt 2011, 09:16

Re: Starting the cure

Inlägg av jazzlithi »

Dear Anna,
thank you again for your time and answers. I am sorry I bothered you that much with questions, which I should have easily answered by myself. I re-read the book during the cure and sometimes I still re-read some parts, if I loose patience and have to remind myself, that´s it´s a process :)
But I am proud to tell you, that last night was first night (16th night from the beggining) my son slept all night, even through the hours of wolf. I didn´t have to jingle all night! It´s seems like a miracle!
We have still some problems with the day naps though, sometimes he still cries during the second 45 minutes, I have to rock the carriage to calm him down, sometimes untill the end of his time to sleep. I do it exactly as is written in the book - I let him be as long as he can, then he usually starts crying, I jingle, sometimes he falls back to sleep, but usually he doesn´t calm down, he works himself up, doesn´t listen to jingle, so I go and rock the carriage, he calms down, when I leave with jingle, he starts again. I really try to let him be as long as possible, I try not to overuse rocking, I don´t hang by the carriage, I am confident and I know it works (because it does sometimes), but sometimes he just cries and cries. I know it´s still early, it can take much longer to adjust to the schedule. But I don´t know why sometimes it works that well and sometimes it´s just desperate.
I am thinking about adjusting his schedule, prolonging his night for 30 minutes, changing his first day nap to 45 minutes, I think it could make the second nap easier to sleep for 1,5 hours. If his daytime sleep doesn´t improve, I am thinking about doing it in two weeks, when the time is changing, so we do the changes in once. What do you think about it? Do you think changing the schedule one month after beggining the cure is ok?
Thank you again for your book and your advice. I have recommended your GNS to at least 5 mothers already, everyone is just amazed how it works. Thank you for my undisturbed night sleep. Have a good night,
Ann
jazzlithi
Inlägg: 26
Blev medlem: sön 02 okt 2011, 09:16

Re: Starting the cure

Inlägg av jazzlithi »

please, help me, it´s still the same, the mid-day nap, he is able to cry the whole second half of it ... nothing helps. ONly rocking, but I can´t rock him the whole time ... the other naps are ok, he either sleeps all the time, or falls back to sleep by himself, or he is awake, but doesn´t cry. This one, he cries desperately... what should I do??
annawahlgren
Upphovskvinna SHN-kuren
Inlägg: 15366
Blev medlem: mån 22 nov 2004, 22:46
Ort: Gastsjön

Re: Starting the cure

Inlägg av annawahlgren »

:D Dear Ann,

Thank you so much for delighting news! You're doing such a great job!

GNS is still in the process. Do not worry; that's the worst thing - you know that. Count on one month for everything to get smooth to its full. Make life as simple as possible. If he sleeps well while you are out walking him in the carriage, do so for that troublesome nap. And/or move it a little - 15 minutes could make all the difference in the world. You can do small adjustments any day now, if and when you feel he tries to tell you to - just remember NOT to evaluate anything until one week after.

Either you rock the carriage or you jingle - not both. Jingling the child in his carriage is what you do only if you use the carriage as a bed with no moving it. Do you follow me? Sorry for my bad English, today my head is overworked from very nice "problems". Birthday morning at seven with a bunch of grandchildren... End the rocking with some shaking the handle from side to side and leave. Then wait and listen, before you repeat.

Now, shoot your remaining private wolfs and BE PROUD! You are doing a wonderful job, and I thank you dearly on behalf of your Baby Darling :P

Best, Anna

O:) :heart: :sleep:
:D Nio barn, arton barnbarn, tre barnbarnsbarn och några tusen nästanbarn :!:
jazzlithi
Inlägg: 26
Blev medlem: sön 02 okt 2011, 09:16

Re: Starting the cure

Inlägg av jazzlithi »

Hi Anna,
thank you, I think that the remaining wolfs will be out of our life pretty soon :) We have been sleeping all night, waking up by an alarm clock, which gives me all the energy to shoot them.
Have a great day, I will keep recommending your book wherever I go!
And happy birthday if it was your birthday morning :) Have a great day,
Ann
annawahlgren
Upphovskvinna SHN-kuren
Inlägg: 15366
Blev medlem: mån 22 nov 2004, 22:46
Ort: Gastsjön

Re: Starting the cure

Inlägg av annawahlgren »

:lol: :heart: :lol:

:thumbsup:
:D Nio barn, arton barnbarn, tre barnbarnsbarn och några tusen nästanbarn :!:
jazzlithi
Inlägg: 26
Blev medlem: sön 02 okt 2011, 09:16

Re: Starting the cure

Inlägg av jazzlithi »

Hello Anna,
I am writing again after some time, I think I just need a bit of reassurance that we are coping well with a crisis. My son turned 8 months ten days ago and just like that, from one day to another, he changed from a happy, perky and very social little guy to a cranky, tired and all the time whinning boy. I am not worried about that, I read the chapter in your book, I know it will pass, I just make sure he has everything he needs and give him my love and support.
The thing I worry about is his night sleep. He started to wake up a lot during the night. First night, it was scary, he was crying practically for 3 hours, he was going on and off, at the end nothing helped to calm him down, so I had to move him to his carriage, rock him to sleep and then move him back to his bed. It worked, he slept till the morning. But 3 days ago he started to wake up and cry around 5 to 6 times a night. He usually starts whinning, I do nothing untill I hear him work himself up, then I jingle. He usually falls asleep, but the last 3 nights it didn´t work. He was standing by his bed, screaming. I had to go in and position him, then he fell asleep well. This is happening around 5 times a night, tonight I had to reposition him 4 times. I am just wondering, if I am doing the right thing. I am still sticking to the methode, I am not worried or nervous, it works still very well. I am just wondering, if going in and reposition him so many times a night cannot ruin the cure? I would certainly not want that, since it has worked so well for us!
Thank you for your insight, I am very greatfull for this forum and your answers.
And just to keep you informed, he has been sleeping great during the day, we didn´t have to change his schedule so far.
Have a great day,
Ann
TorsMamma
Forumets ordförande
Inlägg: 11152
Blev medlem: fre 17 nov 2006, 09:25
Ort: Stockholms Skärgård

Re: Starting the cure

Inlägg av TorsMamma »

Hi,

The 8-month anxiety period can be quite difficult for some small children. The thing is “don’t change anything” jag keep everything the same. By starting to go in and out the room you are starting to invite some unwanted wolfs in the room.

I have a rule for myself, the first night I do everything like night ONE of the cure if the child shows great distress. Then I quickly back away. This to say, ok we have all the tools in place for a one time only thing. But after this I will give you the confidence that you can sort much of the tasks out yourself. So then I quickly have the jingle take over. It is the jingle that does the job!

So you could at this time do a “minicure”. You start from night 2 in the cheatsheet where you work with the jingle. You should be able to calm you child by just using the jingle.

During the day, have all your day to day tasks done on the floor, much cooking can be done there. When the child shows anxiety wanting to come up or be carried, lye down on the floor, have him crawl over to you, be available and show that you are there. I would lye down on my back on the floor until my son would crawl away again. It would usually not take more than 5 min. then go back to my chores on the floor. Folding laundry, cooking, cleaning can be done on the floor. So use it, have the child on his stomach beside you.

:idea: Then, don’t forget the laughter before sleeping. They really need to laugh out loud for 10 minutes before sleeping a nap och at night. Work on it. Tickle is ok.

Good Luck getting back on track.
Tor 2006
:heart: BB barn från början. Sov sin första 12h natt 5 dagar före 4 mån, Diplomerad SS vid 6 mån
:heart:

:heart: FTLOC child from the beginning. Slept his first 12 hour night 5 days before 4 months. :heart:
jazzlithi
Inlägg: 26
Blev medlem: sön 02 okt 2011, 09:16

Re: Starting the cure

Inlägg av jazzlithi »

Hi,
thank you for a quick answer. I knew I shouldn´t have gone so much to him, it didn´t seem right, but I was sort of desperate, when he was crying himself into a hysteria because he was standing in his bed and couldn´t (?? or I don´t know whether he couldn´t, normally he can) lie down. The moment I took him down, he was sleeping. I will try your recommendation and treat this night as a second night of the cure and hopefully we will get back on the right track. I suppose that waking up more often comes with the 8 months anxiety and it shall pass as long as we keep the wolfs out ...
Thank you for the tip about doing house work on the floor. I have been getting down on the floor when my son crawled to me and was hanging on my leg instead of picking him up, but working on the floor seems even more logical. I don´t know why I never come up with the logical answer myself when it´s so obvious ... :)
Have a great day and I hope I will write you some good news soon.
Ann
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